From lojban-beginners+bncCOib25n_BhDtzIXrBBoEDnoG0A@googlegroups.com Sun Feb 20 11:07:48 2011 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PrEd9-0001wm-PV; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 11:07:47 -0800 Received: by ywg8 with SMTP id 8sf558218ywg.16 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 11:07:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=8HjyzP40Tmw6Gd8R0NAyQjyYKypfln2EvEpfyf/Aqio=; b=sFC8xHvbtxpDsAW1Kc0Mq/5mxBWjZP3K8rMCG2EVGkLP1d1qFw1PG4xxoaW7oQTBE1 f3xT5L6RP12K6x99jvMzoyMoVty0r9M3oao2DN2e/3PoWO+pQIxf6zR68+S2TIjr9FNa EVa1ZydPcsEvEGlhJ8rosRsGBzsU9Vpsl1H3c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=Jvow0Rm4oYSCUVV358oR7MgWT2PF8btaQJRmZtuCYiKFLMdgAoboqjl30DYTQGCTSK FORR45cEZjHgnkYhLnjzQlv0o7IcG+/YuJ/4AO6KDnOBZrKNlHhjRBc005iERlGqJuph 4YauKRoW7BcTXmqJ3L82KYp6L1BeHYnozcT6A= Received: by 10.90.68.11 with SMTP id q11mr65852aga.47.1298228845933; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 11:07:25 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.76.165 with SMTP id c37ls4270403ibk.3.p; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 11:07:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.206.68 with SMTP id ft4mr157442ibb.13.1298228845080; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 11:07:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.206.68 with SMTP id ft4mr157440ibb.13.1298228845044; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 11:07:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f174.google.com (mail-iw0-f174.google.com [209.85.214.174]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d9si989485ibq.7.2011.02.20.11.07.25 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 20 Feb 2011 11:07:25 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.174 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.174; Received: by iwn8 with SMTP id 8so1193329iwn.19 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 11:07:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.225.5 with SMTP id iq5mr795145icb.430.1298228844641; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 11:07:24 -0800 (PST) Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.42.141.67 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Feb 2011 11:07:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <869812.24929.qm@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <869812.24929.qm@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 14:07:24 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] lujvo making help request From: ".arpis." To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Cc: "A. PIEKARSKI" X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.174 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf305644851f50b7049cbb751b --20cf305644851f50b7049cbb751b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 When I look at http://www.lojban.org/cgi-bin/dict.pl?Form=dict.pl1&Query=ceirsenpi&Strategy=*&Database=*&submit=Submit+query I only see a lojban->english definition with only the first place defined. Is there somewhere else that you found your definition, or did you simply deduce it from the word? On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 1:57 PM, A. PIEKARSKI wrote: > > The jovlaste defintion, like English, leaves many possible > interpretations of "agnostic". > > ceirsenpi: > {c1 senpi tu'a lo du'u lo cevni be c2 c3 be'o zasti z2 z3} > where {tu'a} allows for: > - doubt about the existance of God > - doubt about the existance of the proof that God exists > - doubt about the possibility of proving that God exists > -etc > You are right in stating, though, that none of the definitions > of "agnostic" implies "belief" rather than "doubt", so their is > certainly room for a new lujvo. > totus > > > > > >From: Alex Rozenshteyn > >To: Lojban Beginners > >Sent: Sat, February 19, 2011 4:24:16 PM > >Subject: [lojban-beginners] lujvo making help request > > > >I'm unsatisfied with the current translation of "agnostic" as > "god-doubter" > > > >While that works in common usage, a more precise definition (at least as > it is > >used in certain circles in which I discuss) would be "one who believes in > the > >unknowability of the existence of a god" > > > >so I tried to come up with a lujvo: > > > >krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo djuno be lo du'u zasti fa lo cevni -> {ko'a} > believes > >that it is impossible to know that god exists. (djuno asks for a {du'u}, > >although {jei} may be more appropriate) > >fi lo cevni cu krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo djuno be lo du'u zasti -> {ko'a} > >believes about god that it is impossible to know that {zo'e} exists > >cevni krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo djuno be lo du'u zasti -> {ko'a} god > type-of > >believes that it is impossible to know that {zo'e} exists > >cevni krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo zasti djuno -> {ko'a} god type-of believes > that > >it is impossible to exist type-of know > >cevni krici lo du'u zasti djuno tolcu'i -> {ko'a} god type-of believes > that > >(exist type-of know) type-of impossible > > > >But I get stuck there. Am I going about this the right way? > > > >Is the next progression > > > >zasti djuno tolcu'i cevni bo krici = zasti djuno tolcu'i ke cevni krici > > > >? > > > >I'd appreciate any advice. > > > >-- > > > > Alex R > >-- > >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >"Lojban Beginners" group. > >To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > -- mu'o mi'e .arpis. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --20cf305644851f50b7049cbb751b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When I look at http://www.lojban.org/cgi-bin/dict.pl?Form=3Ddict.pl1&Quer= y=3Dceirsenpi&Strategy=3D*&Database=3D*&submit=3DSubmit+query
I only see a lojban->english definition with only the first place define= d.
Is there somewhere else that you found your definition, or did you si= mply deduce it from the word?

On Sun, Feb= 20, 2011 at 1:57 PM, A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:

The jovlaste defintion, like English, leaves many possible
interpretations of "agnostic".

ceirsenpi:=A0
{c1 senpi tu'a lo du'u lo cevni be c2 c3 be'o zasti z2 z3}
where {tu'a} allows for:
- doubt about the existance of God
- doubt about the existance of the proof that God exists
- doubt about the possibility of proving that God exists
-etc
You are right in stating, though, that none of the definitions
of "agnostic" implies "belief" rather than "doubt&= quot;, so their is
certainly room for a new lujvo.
totus
=A0

>
>From: Alex Rozenshteyn <rpgl= over64@gmail.com>
>To: Lojban Beginners <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
>Sent: Sat, February 19, 2011 4:24:16 PM
>Subject: [lojban-beginners] lujvo making help request
>
>I'm unsatisfied with the current translation of "agnostic"= ; as "god-doubter"
>
>While that works in common usage, a more precise definition (at least a= s it is
>used in certain circles in which I discuss) would be "one who beli= eves in the
>unknowability of the existence of a god"
>
>so I tried to come up with a lujvo:
>
>krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo djuno be lo du'u zasti fa lo cevni= -> {ko'a} believes
>that it is impossible to know that god exists. (djuno asks for a {du= 9;u},
>although {jei} may be more appropriate)
>fi lo cevni cu krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo djuno be lo du'u za= sti -> {ko'a}
>believes about god that it is impossible to know that {zo'e} exists=
>cevni krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo djuno be lo du'u zasti ->= {ko'a} god type-of
>believes that it is impossible to know that {zo'e} exists
>cevni krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo zasti djuno -> {ko'a} god= type-of believes that
>it is impossible to exist type-of know
>cevni krici lo du'u zasti djuno tolcu'i -> {ko'a} god ty= pe-of believes that
>(exist type-of know) type-of impossible
>
>But I get stuck there.=A0 Am I going about this the right way?
>
>Is the next progression
>
>zasti djuno tolcu'i cevni bo krici =3D zasti djuno tolcu'i ke c= evni krici
>
>?
>
>I'd appreciate any advice.
>
>--
>
>=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R
>--
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps
>"Lojban Beginners" group.
>To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>lojb= an-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>For more options, visit this group at
>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.=
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.




--
mu'o mi= 'e .arpis.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--20cf305644851f50b7049cbb751b--