From lojban-beginners+bncCIycn8S8DhCzs5zrBBoEMCP-0A@googlegroups.com Thu Feb 24 18:54:01 2011 Received: from mail-vx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Psnob-0004YN-Kq; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:54:01 -0800 Received: by vxc33 with SMTP id 33sf638578vxc.16 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:53:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :x-google-group-id:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=G01eHgXoVhXp9+VQDL7nmzmwYxcuQdDfnJLraoDr3lI=; b=NF7HwiFIdHGukHDSbRfZ36PgCg33nEGbcgLiG/oH291iNvkMr/FK2PAXVjwR7AmxKI sIij6ztF9IV5DR/XW4lCUd+mlffg8LVlCsAn0l+yh6uWCnPpwh9p8alKJIFAwjEg6o4C THaX5uN+SJ2KmEyTwwXe4Z7tKHCa9XipA3PEM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:x-google-group-id:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=RRGtE8uyFW4oDewnRoChz6UHN0eO8rTCl+eFjqc0vTk0MFLd6AT7JtZOZrOTkLpgNC 7rE4ki5r7fjnyQQ9qfsrEZRryDIpCKJgOhmgd3ggWfwH+tCLPv3jjjoTYQaO9DdjfexZ nJ0YmTBTZtpJU/nZ5HIZ7noesO/QTnH86i/lY= Received: by 10.220.118.75 with SMTP id u11mr188819vcq.35.1298602419853; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:53:39 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.53.138 with SMTP id m10ls603978vcg.2.p; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:53:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.177.131 with SMTP id bi3mr582209vcb.11.1298602418898; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:53:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.177.131 with SMTP id bi3mr582208vcb.11.1298602418861; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:53:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qy0-f176.google.com (mail-qy0-f176.google.com [209.85.216.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fj11si30737vcb.0.2011.02.24.18.53.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:53:37 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.176; Received: by qyk30 with SMTP id 30so1245934qyk.14 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:53:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.214.141 with SMTP id ha13mr1499308qcb.60.1298602417394; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:53:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.222.15 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:53:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201102232335.57096.phma@phma.optus.nu> <201102241123.58373.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 21:53:37 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: BAI zi'o From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Google-Group-Id: 94518172 Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016361e8758cb160f049d126f67 --0016361e8758cb160f049d126f67 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 If I say that "mi klama lo zdani lo zarci no da" it does NOT necessarily mean that I didn't go home from the store. It simply means that IF I did, I followed no path doing so. I got there by teleporting point-to-point ("There is no path X such I went to home from the store along it"). Tagged places work exatly the same way --gejyspa On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Ian Johnson wrote: > That's inconsistent with what you said earlier. That is, if {no da} > *really* works the same between both cases, then {lo du'u ko'a broda no da > cu nibli lo du'u ko'a na broda} and {lo du'u ko'a broda broda TAG no da cu > nibli lo du'u ko'a na broda} must both be true. I know the former is true; > you said the latter is false. > > > > mu'o mi'e .latros. > > On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > >> On Thursday 24 February 2011 10:13:11 Ian Johnson wrote: >> > That seems like a pretty significant irregularity to me; if {no da} >> fills a >> > predicate place, it is as if {na} were put in, but if {no da} fills a >> TAG >> > place, it isn't. Or is it that {broda TAG} is a new predicate which is >> > false when {broda TAG no da} is true even though {broda} itself may be >> > true? >> >> "noda" works the same way whether it's in a numbered place or a tagged >> place. >> Prepositions (including tense markers) can be negated, though, whereas FA >> cannot. >> >> Pierre >> -- >> I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wales. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --0016361e8758cb160f049d126f67 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

If I say that "mi klama lo zdani lo zarci no da&q= uot; it does NOT necessarily mean that I didn't go home from the store.= =A0 It simply means that IF I did,=A0 I followed no path doing so. I got th= ere by teleporting point-to-point ("There is no path X such I went to = home from the store along it").=A0 Tagged places work exatly the same = way
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa




= On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wr= ote:
That's inconsistent with what you said earlier. That is, if {no da} *re= ally* works the same between both cases, then {lo du'u ko'a broda n= o da cu nibli lo du'u ko'a na broda} and {lo du'u ko'a brod= a broda TAG no da cu nibli lo du'u ko'a na broda} must both be true= . I know the former is true; you said the latter is false.


=A0

mu'o mi'e .latros.

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Pierre Abba= t <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
On Thursday 24 February 2011 10:13:11 Ian Johnson wrote:
> That seems like a pretty significant irregularity to me; if {no da} fi= lls a
> predicate place, it is as if {na} were put in, but if {no da} fills a = TAG
> place, it isn't. Or is it that {broda TAG} is a new predicate whic= h is
> false when {broda TAG no da} is true even though {broda} itself may be=
> true?

"noda" works the same way whether it's in a numbered pl= ace or a tagged place.
Prepositions (including tense markers) can be negated, though, whereas FA cannot.

Pierre
--
I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wal= es.

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