From lojban-beginners+bncCOib25n_BhD46LHqBBoE20pwPg@googlegroups.com Fri Feb 04 13:50:06 2011 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PlTXW-0004lq-5l; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 13:50:06 -0800 Received: by ywh1 with SMTP id 1sf1747042ywh.16 for ; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 13:49:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=8weQ0RBUnj++HnsuPl8y9nojc+Ro/Dz40IQAT+6vh6A=; b=eRG7byIe72rb+3ce48hdBTygVxidUm8O0Qf5edneQVBCBsmq++i9//05Li3eJUiTj+ 25xsirnHAjSa/kfXjRF/ZTlXY8MN9jap6lWfGgarOASIZs9Exsul8rcfemaeH2W5h1zd EysvrTURCrooZ3h2ZViwfYTG8waf8wuCACSt0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=iY968OkmFKedpb3DsuUwPx8w2lqtx3vfxWm8B0AYpo273u1ck7PwCFZIJdp/gP8+ic k2wjA8UdEFOQIWihB7UlV/xJltV+ggbuy/b+08wkY9Yx6yrxihZSQgIcA6Kx+zwrj8Yr k5Ej5HGiP7v/EfZAmNgr5y6QUzLLgeluuL94c= Received: by 10.91.21.38 with SMTP id y38mr954419agi.44.1296856184362; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 13:49:44 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.76.165 with SMTP id c37ls973150ibk.3.p; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 13:49:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.35.141 with SMTP id p13mr199060ibd.12.1296856183516; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 13:49:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.35.141 with SMTP id p13mr199059ibd.12.1296856183476; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 13:49:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f180.google.com (mail-iw0-f180.google.com [209.85.214.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c4si185297ict.3.2011.02.04.13.49.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 04 Feb 2011 13:49:42 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.180; Received: by iwn37 with SMTP id 37so2517428iwn.39 for ; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 13:49:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.241.6 with SMTP id lc6mr14793387icb.480.1296856182327; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 13:49:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.166.202 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 13:49:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <3794527.1160.1296844129707.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnp16> References: <3794527.1160.1296844129707.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnp16> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 16:49:42 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Friends will be friends From: Alex Rozenshteyn To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf305642571289bd049b7bdcd3 --20cf305642571289bd049b7bdcd3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The reason I care is because I'm playing around with the thought of doing some translations of songs I like, and one of them is "Friends Will Be Friends" by Queen. The refrain is: Its so easy love cos you got friends you can trust Friends will be friends When you're in need of love they give you care and attention Friends will be friends When you're through with life and all hope is lost Hold out your hands cos friends will be friends right till the End It does say what it means by "friends will be friends", making the English sound fine, but the lojban still sounds {mucte lo ka malgli}, but I think the line is important enough to try to translate literally at least to some extent. On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Lindar wrote: > I can't exactly pin down what this is meant to imply. It sounds > tautological in English, but more so in Lojban. I read it as "A friend is > going to be a friend.", which is why you should never ever ever ever ever > translate words or phrases; you should translate meanings. Are you trying to > state that one cannot prevent friends from being friends? If so, why not > just say what you mean? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- Alex R -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --20cf305642571289bd049b7bdcd3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The reason I care is because I'm playing around with the thought of=20 doing some translations of songs I like, and one of them is "Friends= =20 Will Be Friends" by Queen.

The refrain is:
Its so easy love = cos you got friends you can trust
Friends will be friends
When you= 9;re in need of love they give you care and attention
Friends will be fr= iends
When you're through with life and all hope is lost
Hold out your han= ds cos friends will be friends right till the
End

It does say what it means by "friends will be friends", makin= g the English sound fine, but the lojban still sounds {mucte lo ka malgli},= but I think the line is important enough to try to translate literally at = least to some extent.



On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 1:28 PM= , Lindar <l= indarthebard@yahoo.com> wrote:
I can't exactly pin down what this is meant to imply. It sounds tautolo= gical in English, but more so in Lojban. I read it as "A friend is goi= ng to be a friend.", which is why you should never ever ever ever ever= translate words or phrases; you should translate meanings. Are you trying = to state that one cannot prevent friends from being friends? If so, why not= just say what you mean?

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--
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

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