From lojban-beginners+bncCOjSjrXVGBDQ5M_qBBoE9yGtQA@googlegroups.com Thu Feb 10 06:12:53 2011 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PnXGI-0005Op-Gy; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 06:12:53 -0800 Received: by gxk19 with SMTP id 19sf1040968gxk.16 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 06:12:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=XMIZR+/MU3qAuS1LNvzGgwTjFFVBbamFFTyqlPpxPks=; b=Zy1jV0MWlbxkpuSytIn9Ztht5lPG11G1YhykaLJdPHFPFjglO9tqHGitc+LOp53U8R 9UrI5QjwTlsEbBpnd+mr0pJ9Ienl87Bxrz0l6AIJ6xmBAxAJZnMFf/NKGLgGKZRKGXcI xzsm2lF0pYxdjFmiZgsQMjKEaebwfnT9Ab+GU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=mOfsmybIF5IUUiAb/lloZ70MT8bFDRk9K7zNAQGntZTFpvmJQ9p2cw4aKaOB1A9MOc MQpjx/erektlP9ZnEkMY824HL5mrLaiDqu11OamWPu9W6i3fAzoi5mAa3JheZQ+44Vtv RIfVVo4uyFAkZzu0A6RSQB9MDlcUg/hg9TxZw= Received: by 10.91.5.33 with SMTP id h33mr261882agi.36.1297347152118; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 06:12:32 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.57.97 with SMTP id b33ls2238681ibh.0.p; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 06:12:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.200.129 with SMTP id ew1mr8255716ibb.0.1297347150435; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 06:12:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.200.129 with SMTP id ew1mr8255715ibb.0.1297347150244; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 06:12:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f175.google.com (mail-iy0-f175.google.com [209.85.210.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c4si7833ict.4.2011.02.10.06.12.30 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 10 Feb 2011 06:12:30 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.175; Received: by iyj8 with SMTP id 8so1385150iyj.20 for ; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 06:12:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.10.141 with SMTP id p13mr22358334ibp.131.1297347149785; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 06:12:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.199.19 with HTTP; Thu, 10 Feb 2011 06:12:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:12:29 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Finally? From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221532c7ac03ce32049bee2c6d --00221532c7ac03ce32049bee2c6d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sorry aionys, I was replying via my phone and confused the authors of each message. On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 9:09 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > .i ki'e .luk. mi'e .aionys. .u'i > > On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 9:03 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> oh duh, how did I not think of that. Marking the time of the starting of >> the job as being (in relation to) a long event of seeking [the job]. Very >> pretty doi gejyspa >> >> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 8:27 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> >>> How about this? >>> {baze'u lonu sisku ku mi co'a se jibri} >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: >>> >>>> I'm beginning to think that there are fundamentally two separate >>>> claims. >>>> >>>> 1) mi co'a se jibri >>>> 2) mi puze'u sisku lo za'i mi se jibri >>>> >>>> Either these two need to be seperate bridi or you need to restate one of >>>> them in terms of the other like gejyspa did. >>>> mi puze'umo'u sisku lo jibri >>>> On Feb 9, 2011 5:52 PM, "Jonathan Jones" wrote: >>>> > On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Michael Turniansky < >>>> mturniansky@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Luke Bergen >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> No, that's why I chose the malgli form of {cpacu} to show initiation >>>> of >>>> >>> the job. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I'd be amazed if there weren't some quick easy way to express >>>> "finally" >>>> >>> given the absurd number of tenses, contours, intervals, etc... that >>>> we have >>>> >>> at our disposal. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> .... >>>> >>> >>>> >>> and yet, I can't think of what it would be... It's something like, >>>> {mi se >>>> >>> jibri}, but I {co'a se jibri} and {pu ze'u na se jibri}. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Is it possible to say something like "mi pu citka .iku'i mi ca na >>>> citka" >>>> >>> without having to break it out into a new bridi? Would "mi pu canai >>>> citka" >>>> >>> do what I want it to here? If so, you could say {mi co'a puze'unai >>>> se >>>> >>> jibri} "I [start] & [past-long-time do not] have job". Although I >>>> get the >>>> >>> feeling like I've done something very wrong here. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >> Yes. Say "mi mo'u citka" :-) And no, you can't -nai ZEhA. Yes, you >>>> >> can certainly say "mi mo'u na se jibri" or "mi ba'o na se jibri", but >>>> I went >>>> >> with a UI for "finally" because to me, in that sentence, it's really >>>> nothing >>>> >> more than an intensifier, something that UI do well. >>>> >> --gejyspa >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > I was specifically meaning "finally" as in the "after a long time, >>>> typically >>>> > involving difficulty or delay" use, not in the exasperated or >>>> aggravating >>>> > expressive use. >>>> > >>>> > On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Michael Turniansky >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> No, that's more "I am still holding onto the job" (And "cpacu lo >>>> >>>> jibri" is malglico, anyhow. Use seljibri). >>>> >>>> Personally, I'd use a UI like u'a or uo. The big problem is that >>>> the >>>> >>>> English "finally" in that sentence really means "ba lo nu zu co'e", >>>> which is >>>> >>>> just too much of a mouthful. Recasting as "lo pu'u mi sisku tu'a lo >>>> jibri >>>> >>>> cu mulno" might be better. >>>> >>>> --gejyspa >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Luke Bergen >>> >wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I'd probably use {za'o}. {mi za'o cpacu lo jibri} >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Jonathan Jones >>> >wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>>> How to translate finally, as in "I finally got the job!"? >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> -- >>>> >>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. >>>> mi >>>> >>>>>> patfu do zo'o >>>> >>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> -- >>>> >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>> Google >>>> >>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com >>>> >>>>>> . >>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> >>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> -- >>>> >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> >>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> >>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> >>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups >>>> >>>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> >>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> >>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> -- >>>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups >>>> >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> >>> To post to this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> -- >>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups >>>> >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> >> To post to this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> >> For more options, visit this group at >>>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>> > >>>> > .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi >>>> patfu do >>>> > zo'o >>>> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> > To post to this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> > For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>> > >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>> >>> .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu >>> do zo'o >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu > do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --00221532c7ac03ce32049bee2c6d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry aionys, I was replying via my phone and confused the authors of each = message.

On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 9:09 AM= , Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
.i ki'e .luk= . mi'e .aionys. .u'i

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 9:03 PM, Luke Berg= en <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
oh duh, how did I not think of that. =A0Marking the time of the starting = of the job as being (in relation to) a long event of seeking [the job]. =A0= Very pretty doi gejyspa

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at = 8:27 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
How about t= his?
{baze'u lonu sisku ku mi co'a se jibri}

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
On Feb 9, 2011 5:52 PM, "Jonathan Jones&quo= t; <eyeonus@gmail= .com> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 1:1= 6 PM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 3:01 PM, L= uke Bergen <l= ukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> No, that= 9;s why I chose the malgli form of {cpacu} to show initiation of
>>> the job.
>>>
>>> I'd be amazed if = there weren't some quick easy way to express "finally"
>= ;>> given the absurd number of tenses, contours, intervals, etc... th= at we have
>>> at our disposal.
>>>
>>> ....
>&= gt;>
>>> and yet, I can't think of what it would be... I= t's something like, {mi se
>>> jibri}, but I {co'a se j= ibri} and {pu ze'u na se jibri}.
>>>
>>> Is it possible to say something like "mi = pu citka .iku'i mi ca na citka"
>>> without having to = break it out into a new bridi? Would "mi pu canai citka"
>>> do what I want it to here? If so, you could say {mi co'a = puze'unai se
>>> jibri} "I [start] & [past-long-ti= me do not] have job". Although I get the
>>> feeling like= I've done something very wrong here.
>>>
>>>
>> Yes. Say "mi mo'u citk= a" :-) And no, you can't -nai ZEhA. Yes, you
>> can ce= rtainly say "mi mo'u na se jibri" or "mi ba'o na se = jibri", but I went
>> with a UI for "finally" because to me, in that sentence,= it's really nothing
>> more than an intensifier, something th= at UI do well.
>> --gejyspa
>>
>
> I was specifically meaning "finally" as in the "after a= long time, typically
> involving difficulty or delay" use, not in the exasperated or agg= ravating
> expressive use.
>
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at = 2:10 PM, Michael Turniansky
> <mturniansky@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, that's more "I am still ho= lding onto the job" (And "cpacu lo
>>>> jibri"= ; is malglico, anyhow. Use seljibri).
>>>> Personally, I&= #39;d use a UI like u'a or uo. The big problem is that the
>>>> English "finally" in that sentence really means = "ba lo nu zu co'e", which is
>>>> just too muc= h of a mouthful. Recasting as "lo pu'u mi sisku tu'a lo jibri=
>>>> cu mulno" might be better.
>>>> = --gejyspa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'd probably use {za'o}. = {mi za'o cpacu lo jibri}
>>>>>
>>>>>= ;
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Jonathan Jones &l= t;eyeonus@gmail.com<= /a>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> How to translate finally, = as in "I finally got the job!"?
>>>>>>
&g= t;>>>>> --
>>>>>> mu'o mi'e .ai= onys.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> .i.a'o.e'e ko = cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi
>>>>&g= t;> patfu do zo'o
>>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side!= Luke, I am your father. :D )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>= >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=
>>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@= googlegroups.com
>>>>>> .
>>>>>&= gt; To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroup= s.com.
>>>>>> For more options, visit this group a= t
>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-b= eginners?hl=3Den.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --=
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscrib= ed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners"= ; group.
>>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@goog= legroups.com.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, s= end email to
>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.co= m.
>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>= ;>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginner= s?hl=3Den.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>&g= t;>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Goog= le Groups
>>>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>&g= t;>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.c= om.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>&= gt;> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>= ;>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners= ?hl=3Den.
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>= ;>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e Groups
>>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>>> To post to= this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>>&g= t; To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this mess= age because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Lojba= n Beginners" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to <= a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojba= n-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more = options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= .
>>
>
>
>
> --
> mu'o m= i'e .aionys.
>
> .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu = .i doi.luk. mi patfu do
> zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luk= e, I am your father. :D )
>
> --
> You received this me= ssage because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginner= s" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com= .
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-be= ginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.= com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>

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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
=



--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.=

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi= .luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
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To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

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=

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e= 'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo= 'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
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To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

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--00221532c7ac03ce32049bee2c6d--