From lojban-beginners+bncCIXj1IxCEJajuesEGgQQO6_7@googlegroups.com Wed Mar 02 06:18:18 2011 Received: from mail-vx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PumsW-00031X-Qy; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 06:18:18 -0800 Received: by vxc33 with SMTP id 33sf3683250vxc.16 for ; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 06:18:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf :x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id:message-id:x-ymail-osg :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :x-google-group-id:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=GTrHSF1TakduLeOtWxSmVx456BesEZ3bWJyxUVNHcxk=; b=00VZbbzCn5BEJeBmCr3KG4Yv1zGUmnKiZJVz4HV87Uel/AKD6+Y/y9nGbH6kodGS8J m+DIqP07edy/nKGSduyCfPOB3CzymMKx/z17e/mb3P+emiWDsBvGLHKSa5bML9x522Cx W+FwyhC8xpIUWPKU7S2iqEK9e27G8/pRjGk0c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id :message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to :in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:x-google-group-id:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=vyXpI6VgNCtnOmbFsA5C5SM4VvmrajKzbHbw6AMifMcsz83v17m6BdGulFnP6iuuRV BLaVLLu6y8MlgcnoyZnxCz7Ca/uCODn37YPx8hZCtutpIqgH5hiXjz4/nvIM0mbnXeB3 qO+fO24CH5lxcZtHGdD7KBQD504rv2MB7F28M= Received: by 10.220.180.134 with SMTP id bu6mr827707vcb.32.1299075478797; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 06:17:58 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.191.10 with SMTP id dk10ls2985267vcb.4.p; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 06:17:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.87.20 with SMTP id u20mr2466846vcl.16.1299075477871; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 06:17:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.87.20 with SMTP id u20mr2466845vcl.16.1299075477857; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 06:17:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from nm10-vm0.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com (nm10-vm0.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com [98.139.53.194]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id m31si846634vcr.9.2011.03.02.06.17.56; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 06:17:56 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 98.139.53.194 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of totus@rogers.com) client-ip=98.139.53.194; Received: from [98.139.52.188] by nm10.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2011 14:17:56 -0000 Received: from [98.139.52.182] by tm1.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2011 14:17:56 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1065.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2011 14:17:56 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 665050.31591.bm@omp1065.mail.ac4.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 69892 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Mar 2011 14:17:56 -0000 Message-ID: <390805.67000.qm@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 1MsnEcoVM1nzl_QmscYubhfceQn1E3PVYTRYkaxPnuSMJvZ .ROZyYA86s7uGIj.gK47zZoBQZbncuK_yJ9cnAj2jexKhaWldOVfLdwsKylu 3A3JgdWXYv.pXeXdclxZxLEAZE3m_gje3dUE6VTBnaCURGUsB7aYp9vDoc6q kLwJARHqMmY.sJXHYi2UbjG5_8VWQFPDBHFchfOkCKaqdj_.ZPglQcIDAj2w xq3zjzUVviyW1Wmd2cR0jXQRyms4Xs3WTWo6qxLAVwl01j0soSg-- Received: from [99.240.58.72] by web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 06:17:55 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/559 YahooMailWebService/0.8.109.292656 References: <9b728267-66e5-4514-8a4c-861c0ca64c93@u12g2000vbf.googlegroups.com> <25cff610-39f6-43e1-b2a3-5124eb438bbd@d12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 06:17:55 -0800 (PST) From: "A. PIEKARSKI" Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Words for Politics and Economics To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: <25cff610-39f6-43e1-b2a3-5124eb438bbd@d12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: totus@rogers.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 98.139.53.194 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of totus@rogers.com) smtp.mail=totus@rogers.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@rogers.com X-Google-Group-Id: 94518172 Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >=20 > I had a problem asking for the translations of political parties > because those words mean something different than what they originally > did and what they did 100, 50, and even 10 years ago.=A0 The words > themselves show this in their construction.=A0=20 We are lojbanists, not interpreters of history.=A0 That means we must,=20 in effect, 'translate' the names of the parties even if we believe the name= s=20 do not reflect today's reality.=A0 For example, the most often-used lujvo= =20 for communism has been {guntrusi'o} based on the idea (vaguely) of having= =20 communes ruled by workers (and peasants).=A0 Few people today would=20 claim that that ever was the case.=A0 But you would never get agreement=20 on what communism really represented.=A0 Communism is an ideology=20 justifying: 1) rule-by-state-biurocrats? 2) rule-by-party-clique-using-the-trappings-of-ideological-communism? 3) rule-by-well-meaning-ideologues-with-no-control-over-party-functionaries= ? 4) rule-by-workers-corrupted-by-power? 5) etc The same would apply to socialsm, conservatives etc. We are stuck with what the 'owners' of the label want it to mean. mu'o mi'e .totus. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.