From lojban-beginners+bncCIycn8S8DhDQ2rnrBBoEM1ni5g@googlegroups.com Wed Mar 02 08:16:33 2011 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Puoj0-0006Q9-2y; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:16:33 -0800 Received: by qyk36 with SMTP id 36sf258323qyk.16 for ; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:16:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :x-google-group-id:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=aJRBMSi9RDs0v/5urD28/OTks4ioSm57D1VvAFjBRcI=; b=OeD09kIXHyI5iVxGsJU9VaAZVV/5RO4ohDI/KwepADNZ0Vkr4LJ2yq1QryNeLBkiM8 iy/n9Vpq9kzwMutjNHvOJ5f+d06hg7gV/DMvHH/uvjg9f2Vtbbz2xnnRiGMX6wCzU/nZ oByYSPiPnhtV9VLiD9HUsenFIa2gnlRBA70yM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:x-google-group-id:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=agm4K4Zqj/UvUq8JLZJqWOztcGxdRPv5olBZMvd1ONp8PxkU0xe5GLr7bjL4RTHx4t KlruaOzZ4BTEQ8g66up0yznhySxAJmYhhxwZlOB/wa7aNa3U4JLxFtrVOsCtuDkXj3U3 U+HhhZnqvG4D/zhL8ZUd8ZmbzCokvFwRACF2k= Received: by 10.229.0.135 with SMTP id 7mr306238qcb.30.1299082576105; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:16:16 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.70.202 with SMTP id e10ls17665qcj.1.p; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:16:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.73.81 with SMTP id p17mr961800qcj.15.1299082575324; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:16:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.73.81 with SMTP id p17mr961799qcj.15.1299082575293; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:16:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qy0-f177.google.com (mail-qy0-f177.google.com [209.85.216.177]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v5si23588qce.0.2011.03.02.08.16.15 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:16:15 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.177; Received: by qyl38 with SMTP id 38so227644qyl.1 for ; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:16:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.109.211 with SMTP id k19mr3469680qcp.72.1299082575104; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:16:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.222.15 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Mar 2011 08:16:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <42f9eaf8-897b-499c-89b3-9bef2a378c9f@m7g2000vbq.googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 11:16:14 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] question about soi and go'i From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.177 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364274c96c4e0b049d823be5 --0016364274c96c4e0b049d823be5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 1:56 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: > Or you can just say {.i xu ji'a ny viska do}. Also, while I love the > construct, I haven't seen a lot of vo'a and friends around. I hope to see > them more though, they seem awfully useful. > > Although, I'm not 100% sure what the difference is between {vo'a} and {lo > go'i}. > > Although I don't really use "soi", "vo'a" appears 10 times in Esther. It's very useful in sub-bridi, since it refers to the x1 of the main (outermost) bridi. "lo go'i" on the other hand refers to the x1 of the previous bridi. ("lo no'a" would be closer to vo'a, but that only pops up one level.) --gejyspa > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 6:05 PM, zegma wrote: > >> coi rodo >> I am a beginner lojbanist, i've read the seventh chapter of Lojban >> Reference Grammar about pro-bridi and pro-sumti and there is something >> I don't understand about "soi" ; >> if I want to question the reciprocity of the previous utterance of my >> interlocutor, can I use "soi"? >> If I use soi this way, I have to use go'i to pick up the previous >> bridi, then a new question arise ; should I use pro-sumti like "ri" >> with soi, or does reflexive pro-sumti of the vo'a serie apply? >> >> For exemple, if my interlocutor said "mi viska le nanmu" >> if I want to ask "is it reciprocal?" >> should I say something like "xu go'i ra'o soi vo'a vo'e" ? >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --0016364274c96c4e0b049d823be5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at = 1:56 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
Or you can just say {.i xu ji'a ny viska do}. =A0Also, while I love the= construct, I haven't seen a lot of vo'a and friends around. =A0I h= ope to see them more though, they seem awfully useful.

Although, I'm not 100% sure what the difference is = between {vo'a} and {lo go'i}.

=

=A0 Although I don't really use= "soi", "vo'a" appears 10 times in Esther.=A0 It= 9;s very useful in sub-bridi, since it refers to the x1 of the main (outerm= ost) bridi.=A0 "lo go'i" on the other hand refers to the x1 o= f the previous bridi.=A0 ("lo no'a" would be closer to vo'= ;a, but that only pops up one level.)
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa

=A0

On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 6:05 PM, zegma <hardquannone@hotmail= .fr> wrote:
coi rodo
I am a beginner lojbanist, i've read the seventh chapter of Lojban
Reference Grammar about pro-bridi and pro-sumti and there is something
I don't understand about "soi" ;
if I want to question the reciprocity of the previous utterance of my
interlocutor, can I use "soi"?
If I use soi this way, I have to use go'i to pick up the previous
bridi, then a new question arise ; should I use pro-sumti like "ri&quo= t;
with soi, or does reflexive pro-sumti of the vo'a serie apply?

For exemple, if my interlocutor said "mi viska le nanmu"
if I want to ask "is it reciprocal?"
should I say something like "xu go'i ra'o soi vo'a vo'= e" ?

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