From lojban-beginners+bncCIycn8S8DhCLjLrrBBoEuBFLQw@googlegroups.com Wed Mar 02 10:02:09 2011 Received: from mail-yi0-f61.google.com ([209.85.218.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PuqN9-0001Gv-MM; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:02:08 -0800 Received: by yic21 with SMTP id 21sf72620yic.16 for ; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:01:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :x-google-group-id:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=4yh02ZlMG2y/dxcTIaK+mMrPFYlKpOjdnf6EbgGPg8A=; b=XsXIQiYvnAgqEb7Q8UwAJGr7o3Rn1uYXblIjPI6qAdp/BH1Z1D+d695BQgf5lwGZ0m hQUkNcONIhdOkDyWZ2IAWsu6wucXz1ONwncAkw8Ze2Jf/FAWfxLPTXGJMr1LciLWW7uA z+mAHr0DZx/+qGxrr7jyj99qw6Bu5lmz6jiXk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:x-google-group-id:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=NTi5q5L5HZofY+bIaCwgAK/0OxFIgBC1VzHiR5I1qImax5qr78yZ7xOO2s4EHXFJsQ v2248IbUoNOc/ba4wrni1g4jLlv/Z3GoMMOxeIqScO+ebQMBnah+OULNHsYeeq2SPAUW u+45gmUELs1VmT0OD3+L9yMSwYVKJgADnsD/A= Received: by 10.150.133.10 with SMTP id g10mr76786ybd.27.1299088907745; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:01:47 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.151.59.21 with SMTP id m21ls184833ybk.4.p; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:01:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.159.39 with SMTP id wz7mr27038vdb.7.1299088906713; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:01:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.159.39 with SMTP id wz7mr27037vdb.7.1299088906686; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:01:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qy0-f175.google.com (mail-qy0-f175.google.com [209.85.216.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b16si26025vby.2.2011.03.02.10.01.45 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:01:45 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.175; Received: by mail-qy0-f175.google.com with SMTP id 35so4679958qyk.6 for ; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:01:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.63.228 with SMTP id c36mr166240qai.17.1299088905276; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:01:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.222.15 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:01:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <42f9eaf8-897b-499c-89b3-9bef2a378c9f@m7g2000vbq.googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 13:01:45 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] question about soi and go'i From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64a864abb0e73049d83b4d1 --0016e64a864abb0e73049d83b4d1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 That is correct. That says. "I broda. Also, that which brodes, brodes." --gejyspa On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: > Oh. So {vo'a} refers to the outermost bridi, not the last bridi? > > So then I guess {vo'a} should not be used for something like: > A: mi broda > B: .i vo'a ji'a brode > > On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 1:56 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: >> >>> Or you can just say {.i xu ji'a ny viska do}. Also, while I love the >>> construct, I haven't seen a lot of vo'a and friends around. I hope to see >>> them more though, they seem awfully useful. >>> >>> Although, I'm not 100% sure what the difference is between {vo'a} and {lo >>> go'i}. >>> >>> >> Although I don't really use "soi", "vo'a" appears 10 times in Esther. >> It's very useful in sub-bridi, since it refers to the x1 of the main >> (outermost) bridi. "lo go'i" on the other hand refers to the x1 of the >> previous bridi. ("lo no'a" would be closer to vo'a, but that only pops up >> one level.) >> --gejyspa >> >> >> >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 6:05 PM, zegma wrote: >>> >>>> coi rodo >>>> I am a beginner lojbanist, i've read the seventh chapter of Lojban >>>> Reference Grammar about pro-bridi and pro-sumti and there is something >>>> I don't understand about "soi" ; >>>> if I want to question the reciprocity of the previous utterance of my >>>> interlocutor, can I use "soi"? >>>> If I use soi this way, I have to use go'i to pick up the previous >>>> bridi, then a new question arise ; should I use pro-sumti like "ri" >>>> with soi, or does reflexive pro-sumti of the vo'a serie apply? >>>> >>>> For exemple, if my interlocutor said "mi viska le nanmu" >>>> if I want to ask "is it reciprocal?" >>>> should I say something like "xu go'i ra'o soi vo'a vo'e" ? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --0016e64a864abb0e73049d83b4d1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=A0 That is correct.=A0 That says. "I broda.=A0 Also,= that which brodes, brodes."
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa

On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 a= t 11:54 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh. =A0So {vo'= ;a} refers to the outermost bridi, not the last bridi?=A0

So then I= guess {vo'a} should not be used for something like:
A: mi broda
B: .i vo'a ji'a brode

On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Michael Turniansky <<= a href=3D"mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mturniansky@gmail= .com> wrote:


On Wed, Mar 2, 201= 1 at 1:56 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:=
Or you can just say {.i xu ji'a ny viska do}. =A0Also, while I love the= construct, I haven't seen a lot of vo'a and friends around. =A0I h= ope to see them more though, they seem awfully useful.

Although, I'm not 100% sure what the difference is = between {vo'a} and {lo go'i}.

<= /div>

=A0 Although I don't really use "= soi", "vo'a" appears 10 times in Esther.=A0 It's ver= y useful in sub-bridi, since it refers to the x1 of the main (outermost) br= idi.=A0 "lo go'i" on the other hand refers to the x1 of the p= revious bridi.=A0 ("lo no'a" would be closer to vo'a, but= that only pops up one level.)
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa

=A0

On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 6:05 PM, zegma <hardquannone@hotmail.fr&= gt; wrote:
coi rodo
I am a beginner lojbanist, i've read the seventh chapter of Lojban
Reference Grammar about pro-bridi and pro-sumti and there is something
I don't understand about "soi" ;
if I want to question the reciprocity of the previous utterance of my
interlocutor, can I use "soi"?
If I use soi this way, I have to use go'i to pick up the previous
bridi, then a new question arise ; should I use pro-sumti like "ri&quo= t;
with soi, or does reflexive pro-sumti of the vo'a serie apply?

For exemple, if my interlocutor said "mi viska le nanmu"
if I want to ask "is it reciprocal?"
should I say something like "xu go'i ra'o soi vo'a vo'= e" ?

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