From lojban-beginners+bncCML0xpmUARCFt7vrBBoEnZ1IRA@googlegroups.com Wed Mar 02 16:06:46 2011 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Puw43-0006tp-6U; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 16:06:46 -0800 Received: by pvc22 with SMTP id 22sf58436pvc.16 for ; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 16:06:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :x-google-group-id:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=5w3qFbVvtlGuF0PKZCDWekiObFDntzFopsXbirrtpc8=; b=NvgqxQQVQZ8MI8k8tBMKIjaY6/LKoLJTu5QhyJ77nTRMXu/ApbAqcP6MF5LFCiNC8Y 90rrrFYPVpY1yep8z6DxkscqbLzp1vRcn8qKpI4cLucqOEY9QQbAJO8gKeNgf0jByrUo e54jt4MhZbit3fJ+GLHURPl2fjMYOTtg7WjAQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:x-google-group-id:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=dd6XIW6jLmMj4m7YmVCaHH6OJkyje/qC0ckOCIEEVcOQJNxQKEToOpV4eW0rkv5Wl6 qOTLnzyOaaVP3wX9KncqNBK/7vTYtJhDeOV9HbwNGgjaDw8SYwhYqErmQDJESjKnPkgF KmK7BoeyOoO8mDkSngDXLwiWeo0iafq0R6Yi0= Received: by 10.142.49.16 with SMTP id w16mr34273wfw.68.1299110789500; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 16:06:29 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.97.18 with SMTP id u18ls304423wfb.2.p; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 16:06:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.148.16 with SMTP id v16mr45599wfd.22.1299110788498; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 16:06:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.148.16 with SMTP id v16mr45598wfd.22.1299110788446; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 16:06:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pv0-f171.google.com (mail-pv0-f171.google.com [74.125.83.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k41si415574wfa.3.2011.03.02.16.06.28 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 02 Mar 2011 16:06:28 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.171; Received: by pva4 with SMTP id 4so94840pva.16 for ; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 16:06:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.9.35 with SMTP id 35mr280063wfi.239.1299110788281; Wed, 02 Mar 2011 16:06:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.149.15 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Mar 2011 16:06:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <42f9eaf8-897b-499c-89b3-9bef2a378c9f@m7g2000vbq.googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 19:06:28 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] question about soi and go'i From: Ian Johnson To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502b8470f3410049d88cd0e --00504502b8470f3410049d88cd0e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 (That is, precisely; I know what {vo'a} does, but not how that differs from the other two.) On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 7:05 PM, Ian Johnson wrote: > vo'a is in the same sentence; go'i is in the previous sentence. They're > completely unrelated. I'm not sure what each of {vo'a}, {lo nei}, and {lo > no'a} do, however. > > mu'o mi'e .latros. > > On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 1:56 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> {soi} seems to have largely fallen out of use. >> >> If you wanted to ask that question after someone has said {mi viska lo >> nanmu}... >> >> with soi, I think you could do {.i xu go'i soi do} which expands to {xu do >> viska lo nanmu soi do} which I think does what you want. >> >> Or you can just say {.i xu ji'a ny viska do}. Also, while I love the >> construct, I haven't seen a lot of vo'a and friends around. I hope to see >> them more though, they seem awfully useful. >> >> Although, I'm not 100% sure what the difference is between {vo'a} and {lo >> go'i}. >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 6:05 PM, zegma wrote: >> >>> coi rodo >>> I am a beginner lojbanist, i've read the seventh chapter of Lojban >>> Reference Grammar about pro-bridi and pro-sumti and there is something >>> I don't understand about "soi" ; >>> if I want to question the reciprocity of the previous utterance of my >>> interlocutor, can I use "soi"? >>> If I use soi this way, I have to use go'i to pick up the previous >>> bridi, then a new question arise ; should I use pro-sumti like "ri" >>> with soi, or does reflexive pro-sumti of the vo'a serie apply? >>> >>> For exemple, if my interlocutor said "mi viska le nanmu" >>> if I want to ask "is it reciprocal?" >>> should I say something like "xu go'i ra'o soi vo'a vo'e" ? >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --00504502b8470f3410049d88cd0e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (That is, precisely; I know what {vo'a} does, but not how that differs = from the other two.)

On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 = at 7:05 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
vo'a is in th= e same sentence; go'i is in the previous sentence. They're complete= ly unrelated. I'm not sure what each of {vo'a}, {lo nei}, and {lo n= o'a} do, however.

mu'o mi'e .latros.

On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 1:5= 6 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
{soi} seems to have largely fallen out of use.

If you wa= nted to ask that question after someone has said {mi viska lo nanmu}...

with soi, I think you could do {.i xu go'i soi do= } which expands to {xu do viska lo nanmu soi do} which I think does what yo= u want.

Or you can just say {.i xu ji'a ny viska do}. =A0Al= so, while I love the construct, I haven't seen a lot of vo'a and fr= iends around. =A0I hope to see them more though, they seem awfully useful.<= /div>

Although, I'm not 100% sure what the difference is = between {vo'a} and {lo go'i}.


On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 6:05 PM, zegma &= lt;hardquannon= e@hotmail.fr> wrote:
coi rodo
I am a beginner lojbanist, i've read the seventh chapter of Lojban
Reference Grammar about pro-bridi and pro-sumti and there is something
I don't understand about "soi" ;
if I want to question the reciprocity of the previous utterance of my
interlocutor, can I use "soi"?
If I use soi this way, I have to use go'i to pick up the previous
bridi, then a new question arise ; should I use pro-sumti like "ri&quo= t;
with soi, or does reflexive pro-sumti of the vo'a serie apply?

For exemple, if my interlocutor said "mi viska le nanmu"
if I want to ask "is it reciprocal?"
should I say something like "xu go'i ra'o soi vo'a vo'= e" ?

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