From lojban-beginners+bncCOjSjrXVGBDorsTrBBoEnJvfxA@googlegroups.com Fri Mar 04 08:46:54 2011 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PvY9S-0005P3-4H; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:46:54 -0800 Received: by yxd5 with SMTP id 5sf1600521yxd.16 for ; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:46:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :x-google-group-id:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=RpdW3/DoX3uqrfedweGzeezXopXVowk6+wXoVLNPmEk=; b=un1Kwj7yB7mkF8bgilgiu9WnSWPgCHeHv4FSg6KtRFiLhhxgGo4XtWDpWVwAcHRDuc HSWIcey6l2AqweveaLT6lqVcTLyu2AJh4+j7m1awlWltDKtnJt2gCRTSOF5+Lme6IbYR FLrAzGVswHRUeMn6LAawQf6NQs6B/Imb0dCW8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:x-google-group-id:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=tPsxjXQgENo6wzhvop7DL34tPZbf6iLCm6vztOy20noYrjJgfpyhXJ54dayLyrsD7I HH0Swhl0xndU9v2nMbEIbVLl6MdlUdhYgxl087AO0HC5/y0xnoHVXC+oVx92tjD7A6AY pXyNQ6Pqd3NTUasWG/cHyzTg4Fx7AuigdIZNM= Received: by 10.91.55.21 with SMTP id h21mr89148agk.42.1299257192183; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:46:32 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.176.130 with SMTP id be2ls1970827ibb.1.p; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:46:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.141.36 with SMTP id k36mr282632ibu.16.1299257191359; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:46:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.141.36 with SMTP id k36mr282631ibu.16.1299257191324; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:46:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d9si481853ibq.7.2011.03.04.08.46.31 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:46:31 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.172 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.172; Received: by iyj8 with SMTP id 8so2985417iyj.17 for ; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:46:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.188.222 with SMTP id db30mr586687ibb.150.1299257191087; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:46:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.199.141 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Mar 2011 08:46:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Luke Bergen Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 11:46:11 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] {-nai} vs {-cu'i} on evidentials To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.172 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016369f9e0f58bf02049daae3e4 --0016369f9e0f58bf02049daae3e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 That's how I'd understand them. I would read {ka'unai mi ka'e snada} as "despite what I know by cultural means, I am innately capable of succeeding". I think some BAI use {nai} in a similar way {mi citka mu'inai lo nu mi na xagji} = "I eat [not because of motive] I am hungry". On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 11:15 AM, .arpis. wrote: > Let's take {ka'u} for example (the one that actually concerns me is {ti'e}, > but {ka'u} makes a clearer example}). > > mi ka'e snada -> I can succeed. > ka'u mi ka'e snada -> I know by cultural means that I can succeed. > ka'u naku mi ka'e snada -> I know by cultural means that I can't succeed. > ? -> Without regard for my cultural knowledge I know that I can succeed. > (i.e. culture tells me nothing about my success) > ? -> Despite my cultural knowledge I know that I can succeed. (i.e. culture > tells me that I can't succeed) > > Are the last two appropriate uses of {ka'ucu'i} and {ka'unai}? > > -- > mu'o mi'e .arpis. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --0016369f9e0f58bf02049daae3e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's how I'd understand them.

I would read {ka= 'unai mi ka'e snada} as "despite what I know by cultural means= , I am innately capable of=A0succeeding".

I t= hink some BAI use {nai} in a similar way {mi citka mu'inai lo nu mi na = xagji} =3D "I eat [not because of motive] I am hungry".

On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 11:15 AM, .arpis. <rpglove= r64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
Let's take {ka'u} for example (the one that actually concerns me is= {ti'e}, but {ka'u} makes a clearer example}).

mi ka'e s= nada -> I can succeed.
ka'u mi ka'e snada -> I know by cul= tural means that I can succeed.
ka'u naku mi ka'e snada -> I know by cultural means that I can&#= 39;t succeed.
? -> Without regard for my cultural knowledge I know th= at I can succeed. (i.e. culture tells me nothing about my success)
? -> Despite my cultural knowledge I know that I can succeed. (i.e. cult= ure tells me that I can't succeed)

Are the last two appropriate uses of {ka'ucu'i} and {ka'una= i}?

--
mu'o mi'e .arpis.

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