From lojban-beginners+bncCOjSjrXVGBC1sMTrBBoEDFqkxg@googlegroups.com Fri Mar 04 08:50:15 2011 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PvYCh-0005VK-1F; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:50:14 -0800 Received: by ywg8 with SMTP id 8sf1605904ywg.16 for ; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:50:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :x-google-group-id:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=f+ZLv76Yo8+omzjfwXbvzFacz5Z2WI0rdUQxpSE6oaM=; b=m2vcU/vR5nUZ64niIJTzz3gfypEzFNNFCUcOracSGjfOMTGOpmRvXW7FOfokiezRXm EfHZdAh8k56AOjB7TKUix2+RV3yBG9M0PW35oDxHIw1uBsMJ8MPy7L1v+DGzRzMDnvhF ThnSH3HGxm6qCYFCdDUUp2xVN7vOAbvFw3DGo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:x-google-group-id:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=V7Slj0+R/gv9VFNmQqN9io0YLf2728Q13ECzA79cRe/DqrJO89l1BZxkzAg4OkYvB3 JMQR5Vzr31vljyiETjfHqmfjdPvwAdFVmpZXtUoWGMp5SlTSjCWeOA8q1+6/PgQQVvqz iux2T83hFZ1TYNzjh0XJvUIH3ZjvNqgPweHGA= Received: by 10.90.125.6 with SMTP id x6mr89210agc.43.1299257397140; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:49:57 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.57.97 with SMTP id b33ls1977827ibh.0.p; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:49:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.43.5 with SMTP id u5mr278622ibe.11.1299257396412; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:49:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.43.5 with SMTP id u5mr278621ibe.11.1299257396376; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:49:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f178.google.com (mail-iw0-f178.google.com [209.85.214.178]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d9si482516ibq.7.2011.03.04.08.49.55 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:49:55 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.178 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.178; Received: by iwn9 with SMTP id 9so2635615iwn.23 for ; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:49:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.177.135 with SMTP id bi7mr1016737icb.138.1299257395121; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:49:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.199.141 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Mar 2011 08:49:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Luke Bergen Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 11:49:35 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] {-nai} vs {-cu'i} on evidentials To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.178 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba6e81b6820da7049daaef6f --90e6ba6e81b6820da7049daaef6f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 oops. Just realized that I didn't even address your question about {nai} vs {cu'i}. Yes, I believe you also used that correctly. I think that ALSO works similarly for BAI. {mi citka mu'icu'i lo nu mi xagji} = "I eat without motivational influence of I am hungry" (i.e. whether I am hungry or not has no influence over the fact that I eat). On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: > That's how I'd understand them. > > I would read {ka'unai mi ka'e snada} as "despite what I know by cultural > means, I am innately capable of succeeding". > > I think some BAI use {nai} in a similar way {mi citka mu'inai lo nu mi na > xagji} = "I eat [not because of motive] I am hungry". > > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 11:15 AM, .arpis. wrote: > >> Let's take {ka'u} for example (the one that actually concerns me is >> {ti'e}, but {ka'u} makes a clearer example}). >> >> mi ka'e snada -> I can succeed. >> ka'u mi ka'e snada -> I know by cultural means that I can succeed. >> ka'u naku mi ka'e snada -> I know by cultural means that I can't succeed. >> ? -> Without regard for my cultural knowledge I know that I can succeed. >> (i.e. culture tells me nothing about my success) >> ? -> Despite my cultural knowledge I know that I can succeed. (i.e. >> culture tells me that I can't succeed) >> >> Are the last two appropriate uses of {ka'ucu'i} and {ka'unai}? >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --90e6ba6e81b6820da7049daaef6f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable oops. =A0Just realized that I didn't even address your question about {= nai} vs {cu'i}.

Yes, I believe you also used that co= rrectly. =A0I think that ALSO works similarly for BAI. =A0{mi citka mu'= icu'i lo nu mi xagji} =3D "I eat without motivational influence of= I am hungry" (i.e. whether I am hungry or not has no influence over t= he fact that I eat).

On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Luke Bergen= <lukeabergen= @gmail.com> wrote:
That's how I'd understand them.

I would read {ka= 'unai mi ka'e snada} as "despite what I know by cultural means= , I am innately capable of=A0succeeding".

I think some BAI use {nai} in a similar way {mi citka mu'inai lo nu mi = na xagji} =3D "I eat [not because of motive] I am hungry".


On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 11:15 AM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
Let's take {ka'u} for example (the one that actually concerns me is= {ti'e}, but {ka'u} makes a clearer example}).

mi ka'e s= nada -> I can succeed.
ka'u mi ka'e snada -> I know by cul= tural means that I can succeed.
ka'u naku mi ka'e snada -> I know by cultural means that I can&#= 39;t succeed.
? -> Without regard for my cultural knowledge I know th= at I can succeed. (i.e. culture tells me nothing about my success)
? -> Despite my cultural knowledge I know that I can succeed. (i.e. cult= ure tells me that I can't succeed)

Are the last two appropriate uses of {ka'ucu'i} and {ka'una= i}?

--
mu'o mi'e .arpis.

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