From lojban-beginners+bncCML0xpmUARDeoJDsBBoENI0jIg@googlegroups.com Fri Mar 18 19:09:55 2011 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q0lbz-0004Pk-L2; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:09:54 -0700 Received: by ywg8 with SMTP id 8sf3680651ywg.16 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:09:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=9DwIlg0WRFOWJBCveBL6rEJYltA08DEfwpWggxQCO4k=; b=zv+lygdki82IeL009XJspfWNwHHiDNw+JOL87Lq49+PdOJhe/bwTwNvgB/owxifAw5 7vc+67upEesZF1TimC9x1a21gVU5rYsc2oxfqO4qRX168u91M3sk0D4doQY3QqU4QABl Jqew9stCct4GmUoL8UB+0JtewWoU2waFDIIiQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=htVHkZTWrZ1NQ6kWBXYMt1av8zf5x4IDsZv6JCp+CqM21tsYvg12bkacNiGyUo2Cn7 l6dOJth3xhmQTXJi+ztBmW2hbSJey5332X9m/aKW0BL1wT0j7WI+m0sDgyiMB6zSrHve QULQmXCcHW3GWMcTVtQQd/F6ZrKg57PJ2P9gU= Received: by 10.150.31.4 with SMTP id e4mr372321ybe.49.1300500574736; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:09:34 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.201.10 with SMTP id y10ls1825723ybf.6.p; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.187.101 with SMTP id x65mr985569yhm.27.1300500573890; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.187.101 with SMTP id x65mr985567yhm.27.1300500573862; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gy0-f171.google.com (mail-gy0-f171.google.com [209.85.160.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l77si631419yhn.4.2011.03.18.19.09.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.171; Received: by gyf3 with SMTP id 3so2162389gyf.16 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:09:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.74.1 with SMTP id w1mr1820307yba.188.1300500573689; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.114.15 with HTTP; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:09:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <12252717.2050.1300480502422.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqdm5> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 22:09:33 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Confused about definitions From: Ian Johnson To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd47c04b997a2049ecc629a --000e0cd47c04b997a2049ecc629a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 "Predicate" and "relation" are interchangeable, roughly. (There's a formal nitpick about a "relation" which has only one argument, but that's not really very interesting or important.) Anyway, "predicate relationship", "predication", and "proposition" are examples of English words similar to the x1 of bridi. "Predicate" is not. mu'o mi'e .latros. On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Juanes wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I found following definitions in the English-Lojban dictionary 2010 and >> I'm confused, hopefully somebody can give me a simple explanation: >> >> *bridi* (bri): x1 (text) is a predicate relationship with relation x2 >> among arguments (sequence/set) x3. Also: x3 are related by relation x2 (x3 >> is a set completely specified) >> >> *selbri* (se + bridi): x2 = b1 (text) is a predicate relationship with >> relation x1 = b2 among arguments x3 = b3 (ordered set) >> >> *terbri* (te + bridi): *x*3*=b*1 (text) is a predicate relationship with >> relation *x*2*=b*2 among arguments *x*1*=b*3 (ordered set) >> >> To me it looks as all three definitions are the same, (a part from the x1, >> x2, x3inversion) is that so or is it me not getting it. Also does someone >> know what b1, b2 etc refer to? >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> .juanes. >> > > Well, it's certainly odd that the definitions are listed like that, but > they are all based on the same word, bridi. {selbri} is {se bridi}, {terbri} > is {te bridi}. In the lojban "sentence" {mi klama lo do zdani fu lo karce} > ("I go to your house in my car."), "mi klama lo do zdani fu lo karce" is a > bridi (a predicate), "klama" is a selbri (a relation), and "mi", "lo do > zdani", and "lo karce" are terbri (a relationship argument). > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu > do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --000e0cd47c04b997a2049ecc629a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Predicate" and "relation" are interchangeable, roughly= . (There's a formal nitpick about a "relation" which has only= one argument, but that's not really very interesting or important.) An= yway, "predicate relationship", "predication", and &quo= t;proposition" are examples of English words similar to the x1 of brid= i. "Predicate" is not.

mu'o mi'e .latros.

On Fri, Ma= r 18, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 2:35 P= M, Juanes <gihemm@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

I found following definitions in the English-L= ojban dictionary 2010 and I'm confused, hopefully somebody can give me = a simple explanation:

bridi<= /b> (bri): x1 (text) is a predicate relationship with relation x2 among arguments (sequence/set) x3. Also: x3 are related by relation x2 (x3 is a set complet= ely specified)

selbri= (se + bridi): x2 =3D b1 (text) is a pr= edicate relationship with relation x1 =3D b2 among arguments x3 =3D b3=A0 (ordered set)

terbri= (te + bridi): x3=3Db1 (t= ext) is a predicate relationship with relation x2=3Db2 among arguments x1<= i>=3Db3 (ordered set)

To me it looks as all three definitions are the same, (a part from = the x1, x2, x3inversion) is that so or is it me not= getting it. Also does someone know what b1, b2 etc refer to?


Thanks,

.juanes.

=

Well, it's certainly odd that the definiti= ons are listed like that, but they are all based on the same word, bridi. {= selbri} is {se bridi}, {terbri} is {te bridi}. In the lojban "sentence= " {mi klama lo do zdani fu lo karce} ("I go to your house in my c= ar."), "mi klama lo do zdani fu lo karce" is a bridi (a pred= icate), "klama" is a selbri (a relation), and "mi", &qu= ot;lo do zdani", and "lo karce" are terbri (a relationship a= rgument).

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le= bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to= the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )


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