From lojban-beginners+bncCI7tjcWhDhClgLvsBBoEgWcAsg@googlegroups.com Sat Mar 26 21:42:34 2011 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q3ho6-0006ll-Je; Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:42:34 -0700 Received: by yxd5 with SMTP id 5sf5755099yxd.16 for ; Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:42:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip :references:user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=fT94UcdpzkJExhe6Jbt7vt4ABgHjQD9XBYAbUZ3xcVk=; b=NoVyFCfg88v1Ynmnop3yUX47dwIB1j5f/B58VYpmzxZFbfAVM7rwH1Q8DVZyVGR245 kavkFo0sxWPEzpzcLsu1DMDT91YMNshSTQLUzPZSkr89kwMGjH2J382ak0nDSsVwAxLy IaAFsOnycVWs9xuK7whQaiocVNSUU9cLv+vhE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references :user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=WRsot0N70VMEO/GmvqGeE8Yyh+mdsZQmjXJpHLd5cKwLItiYzYhoY7jRRP85ar4LSS byt0obRucpk3heJQdlJfW854BRLCCuHfiAnMqatBn8uf8WByKdqrVDxLLpaImz4D6gyD pu9lD+BDUQdBdVx0DhpqB5m+FaNImQoNiynhE= Received: by 10.91.168.2 with SMTP id v2mr540605ago.15.1301200933642; Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:42:13 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.202.30 with SMTP id e30ls550539agq.1.p; Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:42:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.91.77.15 with SMTP id e15mr526689agl.17.1301200932934; Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 17g2000prr.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:42:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-IP: 211.28.52.50 References: <8814818.617.1300823206876.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prcm18> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.16 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/10.0.648.151 Safari/534.16,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: From: ranoritc To: Lojban Beginners X-Original-Sender: ranorith@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wooh, really should have looked that word up first. I did mean fanva, though got the place structure way off. This is why I write in English too - Thanks for your corrections :) And yes, Jonathan Jones. The paper, ink and computer monitors are all valid objects for ti, but a message is something more abstract. Also, you can't point to the message on my screen, which is what I read. It is too far away. Ranorith ue mi pu ei facki fi le valsi .i zu'edji tu'a zo fanva .i ji'a lo'i terbri ku porsi lo to'e drani .i mi ji'a ciska bau lo glibau mu'i la'edi'u .i ckire fi lonu ui do sidju mi .i doi .aionys. go'u .i mi'u lo pelji e lo xinmo e lo vidni cu se smuni zo ti .i ku'i lo selcusku cu sucta zmadu .i ji'a lo nu do degysni lo notci po lo mi vidni zi'e no'u lo se tcidu be mi kei na cumki .i lo tersei be ri bei do cu dukse .i mu'o mi'e ranoritc On Mar 25, 2:13=A0am, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 6:11 AM, ranoritc wrote: > > It does. Unfortunately, while "ti" might translate as "this thing", > > the converse isn't always true. From the CLL: "The cmavo ``ti'', > > ``ta'', and ``tu'' provide only the pointing function of ``this'' and > > ``that''; they are not used to refer to things that cannot be pointed > > at." > > > It would be like saying in English "this object composed on my > > Android". > > Ah, but I /can/ point to to it. All I have to do is log in to my email an= d > open up the message. > > Would you say that a piece of paper is qualifies as something that can be > referenced as {ti}, but the letter written on it isn't? > > > > > > > > > > > go'i .i uinaiku'i zo ti fanza zoi gy this thing gy na roroi soi .i > > la'e zoi gy CLL gy cusku zoi gy The cmavo ``ti'', ``ta'', and ``tu'' > > provide only the pointing function of ``this'' and ``that''; they are > > not used to refer to things that cannot be pointed at. gy .i la'e de'u > > simsa lonu cusku bau glibau zoi gy this object composed on my Android > > gy > > > PS note: Does "na soi" or even riskier "na roroi soi" work? > > > On Mar 23, 9:52 am, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > > I think a message qualifies as a thing. > > > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Lindar wro= te: > > > > > "ti" refers to a place or thing. I think "di'u" is much more > > appropriate. > > > > > Second. > > > > {ti} is demonstrative for things in physical space. We have {di'u} = for > > > > -this very reason-. It's like insisting on calling a gorilla a > > "monkey". > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups > > > > "Lojban Beginners" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.= com > > . > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > > > -- > > > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > > > .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi p= atfu > > do > > > zo'o > > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps > > "Lojban Beginners" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do > zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.