From lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhD018LtBBoE_oZ0NQ@googlegroups.com Thu Apr 21 15:13:24 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QD27j-00011e-DH; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:13:24 -0700 Received: by fxm14 with SMTP id 14sf99529fxm.16 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:13:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=1HJg0MMT56haxXz4vY7VEJ8QEtldBxgFuWrTh9EodL0=; b=vGNiUChUQsVCzY93G/GjIqcL9Hrbp+N3aW70AyWad3Pi3o7DCqMzO78La5iYK/bBB0 M7fJFcJqheb9nu5XE/n47h62KL6pP+3kaAjlCrSrmjU4ButXWyLYgRvjzpV8lt6mDDVV sp99YalMWM/zmIZVu/Vw9nD2kHlNZDEVjA0cs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=2roElJ2Yzw4rxtMA3J3NxxL6KAr4bNd+fX2cGMOAmE6f2HPrbwbMhKtOScH9l6bvlp nU2SIXk4H5BebIehoBo/Uwsoj9j4JBTunsIEj/w5lKS95rep7b/XeiOhkTtU4EvwvwvH d9uFj4qWiXwDcnifookUXfZBAeRxeU/UlBTxg= Received: by 10.223.28.131 with SMTP id m3mr149167fac.18.1303423988151; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:13:08 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.128.88 with SMTP id j24ls50378bks.0.gmail; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:13:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.10.141 with SMTP id p13mr33780bkp.4.1303423986534; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:13:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.10.141 with SMTP id p13mr33779bkp.4.1303423986509; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:13:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f47.google.com (mail-bw0-f47.google.com [209.85.214.47]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e15si406009bke.5.2011.04.21.15.13.06 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:13:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.47; Received: by bwz5 with SMTP id 5so261121bwz.34 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:13:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.126.148 with SMTP id c20mr369477bks.87.1303423986237; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:13:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.191.80 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:13:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110421212744.GA78501@alice.local> References: <20110421123557.GA71258@alice.local> <20110421210112.GL73288@alice.local> <20110421212744.GA78501@alice.local> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 16:13:06 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] vlastezba: First beta version released! From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.47 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d6415ab1015904a1750bae --0016e6d6415ab1015904a1750bae Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable la.djimeil.app. na'e nelci lo mi fonxa On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 3:27 PM, .alyn.post. wrote: > .i .uanai la'e zo di'u .i lo se benji ku no nilcla > .i mu'o mi'e .alyn. > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 03:12:09PM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > to pu benji di'u fo lo mi me la.android. fonxa toi > > > > mu'o mi'e.aionys. > > > > On Apr 21, 2011 3:01 PM, ".alyn.post." > > <[1]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote: > > > > Here are the definitions of consonants and vowels from the PEG fil= e: > > > > consonant <- voiced > > / unvoiced > > / syllabic > > > > syllabic <- l / m / n / r > > > > voiced <- b / d / g / j / v / z > > unvoiced <- c / f / k / p / s / t / x > > > > vowel <- a / e / i / o / u > > > > You'll have to ask another question. :-) > > > > ybu is valid, it being the y letteral in selma'o BY (I believe it > has > > also been two words, Y+BU, in the past though I could be wrong abo= ut > > that. For your purposes either definition is probably ok.) > > > > Will you quote the phrase you're referring to regarding pauses? I > > see this one: > > > > The cmavo =EF=BF=BD.u'e=EF=BF=BD begins with a vowel, and like all= words > > beginning with a vowel, requires a pause (represented by =EF=BF=BD= .=EF=BF=BD) > > before it. > > > > I understand "represented" to be different than "required." In > > particular, these lines are all the same: > > > > .a'e.i'o > > a'e.i'o > > a'e i'o > > .a'e i'o > > > > In that '.' and ' ' are the same. In section 3.3 there is this: > > > > Technically, the period is an optional reminder to the reader of a > > mandatory pause that is dictated by the rules of the language; > > because these rules are unambiguous, a missing period can be > > inferred from otherwise correct text. Periods are included only as > > an aid to the reader. > > > > A period also may be found apparently embedded in a word. When > > this occurs, such a written string is not one word but two, > > written together to indicate that the writer intends a unitary > > meaning for the compound. It is not really necessary to use a > > space between words if a period appears. > > > > Given my understanding of the above, I believe your requiring a > > period to represent this pause to be in error. > > > > I will rerun my baseline and reply back with it. > > > > -Alan > > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 10:42:40PM +0200, Johan Pretorius wrote: > > > Hi Alan > > > > > > I thought I w... > > > > > <[1][2]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote: > > > > > > vlastezba crashes on 80 of the 2433 tests.... > > > > > [2][3]pretoriusjf@gmail.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Goog= le > > Groups > > > "Lojb... > > > > > References > > > > > > Visible links > > > 1. mailto:[4]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org > > > > > 2. mailto:[5]pretoriusjf@gmail.com > > > > -- > > .i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > > ... > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > "Lojban Beginners" group. > > To post to this group, send email to > lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > > > References > > > > Visible links > > 1. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org > > 2. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org > > 3. mailto:pretoriusjf@gmail.com > > 4. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org > > 5. mailto:pretoriusjf@gmail.com > > -- > .i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu d= o zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --0016e6d6415ab1015904a1750bae Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable la.djimeil.app. na'e nelci lo mi fonxa

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 3:27 PM, .alyn.post. <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org<= /a>> wrote:
.i .uanai la'e zo di'u .i lo se ben= ji ku no nilcla
.i mu'o mi'e .alyn.

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 03:12:09PM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0to pu benji di'u fo lo mi me la.android. fonxa toi >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0mu'o mi'e.aionys.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Apr 21, 2011 3:01 PM, ".alyn.post.&q= uot;
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<[1]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Here are t= he definitions of consonants and vowels from the PEG file:
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0consonant <- voiced
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0/ unvoiced
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0/ syllabic
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0syllabic <- l / m / n / r
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0voiced <- b / d / g / j / v / z
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0unvoiced <- c / f / k / p / s / t / x
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0vowel <- a / e / i / o / u
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0You'll have to ask another question. :-)
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ybu is valid, it being the y letteral in selma'= ;o BY (I believe it has
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0also been two words, Y+BU, in the past though I co= uld be wrong about
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that. For your purposes either definition is proba= bly ok.)
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Will you quote the phrase you're referring to = regarding pauses? I
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0see this one:
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The cmavo =EF=BF=BD.u'e=EF=BF=BD begins with a= vowel, and like all words
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0beginning with a vowel, requires a pause (represen= ted by =EF=BF=BD.=EF=BF=BD)
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0before it.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I understand "represented" to be differe= nt than "required." In
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0particular, these lines are all the same:
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0.a'e.i'o
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a'e.i'o
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a'e i'o
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0.a'e i'o
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In that '.' and ' ' are the same. = In section 3.3 there is this:
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Technically, the period is an optional reminder to= the reader of a
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0mandatory pause that is dictated by the rules of t= he language;
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0because these rules are unambiguous, a missing per= iod can be
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0inferred from otherwise correct text. Periods are = included only as
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0an aid to the reader.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A period also may be found apparently embedded in = a word. When
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0this occurs, such a written string is not one word= but two,
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0written together to indicate that the writer inten= ds a unitary
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0meaning for the compound. It is not really necessa= ry to use a
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0space between words if a period appears.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Given my understanding of the above, I believe you= r requiring a
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0period to represent this pause to be in error.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I will rerun my baseline and reply back with it. >
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-Alan
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 10:42:40PM +0200, Johan Pr= etorius wrote:
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Hi Alan
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> I thought I w...
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> <[1][2]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> vlastezba crashes on 80 of the 2433 tests....=
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> [2][3]pretoriusjf@gmail.com
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> --
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> You received this message because you are sub= scribed to the Google
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Groups
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> "Lojb...
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> References
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Visible links
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> 1. mailto:[4]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> 2. mailto:[5]pretoriusjf@gmail.com
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0.i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0You received this message because you are subscrib= ed to the Google
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0...
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0--
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0You received this message because you are subscribed to t= he Google Groups
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0"Lojban Beginners" group.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0For more options, visit this group at
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginner= s?hl=3Den.
>
> References
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0Visible links
> =C2=A0 =C2=A01. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> =C2=A0 =C2=A02. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> =C2=A0 =C2=A03. mailto:pretoriusjf@gmail.com
> =C2=A0 =C2=A04. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> =C2=A0 =C2=A05. mailto:pretor= iusjf@gmail.com

--
.i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.




--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be = denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I= am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--0016e6d6415ab1015904a1750bae--