From lojban-beginners+bncCNzDnoiEDxDm48ftBBoE0bdQYQ@googlegroups.com Fri Apr 22 14:24:16 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QDNpa-0003U4-HH; Fri, 22 Apr 2011 14:24:16 -0700 Received: by fxm14 with SMTP id 14sf1197734fxm.16 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2011 14:23:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=4I4Ts4YTlnFlhRy/J9RqJJr9w5pPqV/0c9imQXrnEv8=; b=OgvFe23ZPjOf68UJxF1wZwiHeECXO9lokEhURNX0Mx6sljQzv7DIXH7mJ8Wz5SLSpc +r8IMI+vjdr5dwGbRV57D3Lpgx3GG8zaCdQBIw4moGCtOCjcC6ss/O5/e+enHYM40Wb0 FFecbGjWBO9ruy3PyWGHxxpk4v80gPIhDpr4Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=AEeV7xr9yOgOcwYyLWBZld6qnrXtQDivKVjeBwxbaRrKlnPLCsm0tkZ1S/NHF6VGjM w8Se+QkA4PniJXKefc3qq13yE1xNDXwOoQzLuETCikAh1W979cNWgAnpOvqGm4wjsdxY Uf29iT0iTsyY3IiQPvr/WDyxTGqZ4zW798Imw= Received: by 10.223.81.195 with SMTP id y3mr416658fak.43.1303507430806; Fri, 22 Apr 2011 14:23:50 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.49.212 with SMTP id w20ls1452886bkf.2.gmail; Fri, 22 Apr 2011 14:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.163.193 with SMTP id b1mr122089bky.13.1303507428591; Fri, 22 Apr 2011 14:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.163.193 with SMTP id b1mr122087bky.13.1303507428569; Fri, 22 Apr 2011 14:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f53.google.com (mail-fx0-f53.google.com [209.85.161.53]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t11si574707bkf.2.2011.04.22.14.23.48 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 22 Apr 2011 14:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pretoriusjf@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.53; Received: by mail-fx0-f53.google.com with SMTP id 8so685042fxm.12 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2011 14:23:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.85.195 with SMTP id p3mr1670922fal.0.1303507428272; Fri, 22 Apr 2011 14:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.87.1 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Apr 2011 14:23:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110422205256.GD80702@alice.local> References: <20110422042758.GE79918@alice.local> <20110422172338.GA80702@alice.local> <20110422205256.GD80702@alice.local> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 23:23:47 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] vlastezba: First beta version released! From: Johan Pretorius To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: pretoriusjf@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of pretoriusjf@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.53 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=pretoriusjf@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3054a6973969ef04a188792f --20cf3054a6973969ef04a188792f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:52 PM, .alyn.post. < alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote: > I believe that the PEG grammar does not forbid capitalization > outside of cmene, which the CLL implies. It might actually be > ok to properly mark stress outside of a cmene, I'm not super > clear. But yeah, the PEG grammor does not distinguish between > capital- and lower-case lerfu. > Okay, so it's probably worth fixing in case somebody decides to put stress on some part of a cmavo cluster to make it fit into the rhythm of their poem. > I think the two examples you cited, {cu'uko'aBAI*} and {da'aremoiMOI*}, > are a parsing error. The BAI* and MOI* are the second column in the > file. Did I send it that way, or did that happen on your end? > I suspect you sent them that way, I remember being about to make a similar file for myself, when you conveniently saved me the trouble by sending me your copy :-) I didn't check though, so it's still possible that it happened on my end. > > 1. It seems to think {jefyfa'o} is not a cmavo cluster. > > 2. Same thing with {ticyve'u} > > 3. Same thing with {cikygau} > > 4. Same thing with {vacysai} > > I believe all of these are a single class, those being lujvo with > impermissible consonant clusters (ff, cv, kg, and cs). When > constructing lujvo from rafsi, impermissible consonant clusters must > be buffered with 'y'... Also (Pierre): > They're lujvo, formed from {jeftu fanmo}, {tcica vecnu}, {cikna gasnu}, and > {vanci sanmi} respectively. If you want them to be cmavo clusters, you have > to pause after "y". > And (Jonathan): > That's because they're lujvo. > Huh, you mean they're lujvo? Erm... Then how am I to distinguish between a cmavo cluster and a lujvo with impermissable consonant clusters? Oh wait, I see a possible answer... cmavo can never contain "y", except for .y. and Cy? -Johan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --20cf3054a6973969ef04a188792f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:52 PM, .alyn.= post. <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
I believe that the PEG grammar does not forbid capitalization
outside of cmene, which the CLL implies. =A0It might actually be
ok to properly mark stress outside of a cmene, I'm not super
clear. =A0But yeah, the PEG grammor does not distinguish between
capital- and lower-case lerfu.

Okay, so it's p= robably worth fixing in case somebody decides to put stress on some part of= a cmavo cluster to make it fit into the rhythm of their poem.
=A0
I think the two examples you cited, {cu'uko'aBAI*} and {da'arem= oiMOI*},
are a parsing error. =A0The BAI* and MOI* are the second column in the
file. =A0Did I send it that way, or did that happen on your end?

I suspect you sent them that way, I remember being about to = make a similar file for myself, when you conveniently saved me the trouble = by sending me your copy :-)=A0 I didn't check though, so it's still= possible that it happened on my end.

=A0
> =A0 =A0 1. It seems to think {jefyfa'o} is not a cmavo cluster. > =A0 =A0 2. Same thing with {ticyve'u}
> =A0 =A0 3. Same thing with {cikygau}
> =A0 =A0 4. Same thing with {vacysai}

I believe all of these are a single class, those being lujvo with
impermissible consonant clusters (ff, cv, kg, and cs). =A0When
constructing lujvo from rafsi, impermissible consonant clusters must
be buffered with 'y'...

Also (Pierre):
They're lujvo, formed from {jeftu fanmo}, {tcica vecnu}, {cikna gasnu},= and
{vanci sanmi} respectively. If you want them to be cmavo clusters, you have=
to pause after "y".
=A0
And (Jonath= an):
That'= s because they're lujvo.

Huh, you mean they're lujvo?=A0=A0 Erm... Then how am = I to distinguish between a cmavo cluster and a lujvo with impermissable con= sonant clusters?=A0
Oh wait, I see a possible answer... cmavo can never= contain "y", except for .y. and Cy?

-Johan

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