From lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhDBo-btBBoE9r7iXQ@googlegroups.com Thu Apr 28 09:12:00 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QFToq-0003no-FB; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:12:00 -0700 Received: by fxm14 with SMTP id 14sf3365966fxm.16 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:11:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=cbvwVZqVoc1q8kfamfUL5zStfVV7NMd+Yu3HxrYjpfQ=; b=cFKPoXIuLSjhEmjZ2x0r6WS3J8dI5cfzoz2dUes5RpPne3FtTqLIMidbBMAKm1sdTb Y1/x+/zhaYO+jeEVBspbwjMqLToGIJw5I8KPtvRmHhVQ6jeC2I5AdpSBImyY6YjvIQrR aN/MpQ5ZDUP8V9kukkIAl62KtQNlG4tSs5oJ0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=JvIiQJiUo32skl32fTuEY9zrsr8gN4VMgG09PUbrZRgSDe0ZBzWljMTwXPnTgCw3kq iQBzu7t85WpmWm/MWqV74AQHMdllxIsF6RMvTnC8MvcfP17AXQqBRcqlKudC6jEcTsS9 WT7BWvI7mPnAgH+1tv2h/41SsvDGvZ3ZdY+M8= Received: by 10.223.37.207 with SMTP id y15mr566701fad.37.1304007105864; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:11:45 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.223.119.12 with SMTP id x12ls510465faq.2.gmail; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.42.15 with SMTP id q15mr326922fae.20.1304007105190; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.42.15 with SMTP id q15mr326921fae.20.1304007105159; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f53.google.com (mail-bw0-f53.google.com [209.85.214.53]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 20si202859fav.0.2011.04.28.09.11.44 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.53; Received: by mail-bw0-f53.google.com with SMTP id 12so2863896bwg.12 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:11:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.126.144 with SMTP id c16mr3463702bks.6.1304007104746; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.191.80 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.191.80 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:11:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <9DE5DB0988ED6C448E606734F5030D38268596AF@bbcmbmx01.blackpool.gov.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 10:11:44 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: RE: [lojban-beginners] Why is CAhA a tense/modal? From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.53 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6daa89243547804a1fcd014 --0016e6daa89243547804a1fcd014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 If I were to quote you as saying, "I love muffins.", the person that "I" refers to in that is you, because within the quote, you are the speaker. So yes, "I" and "you" do switch. In the sentence, "You said it to me earlier.", the person being addressed is "You", and the speaker is "me", obviously. If it were, "You said to me, 'I like muffins.', earlier.", both "You"and "I" refer to you, because within the context of the muffin quote, the speaker is you, while outside the audience is you. to pu benji di'u fo lo mi me la.android. fonxa toi mu'o mi'e.aionys. On Apr 28, 2011 9:38 AM, "Michael Eaton" wrote: So what happens if YOU address ME? Do YOU beome I, while I become YOU? Even if written from MY perspective? Consider the context of an autobiography: if somebody addresses the biographer, I is no longer the speaker (despite the fact that you are reading their presentation) as they are the person being addressed, and therefore the listener. At least from one standpoint, anyway. Also, you wouldn't want to introduce problems with sentences such as "You said it to me earlier". I and YOU surely cannot be always considered to be in a fixed role of speaker and listener. > > -----Original Message----- > From: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com [mailto:lojban-beginners@g... > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners"... http://www.blackpool.gov.uk/EmailDisclaimer/ This message has been scanned for inappropriate or malicious content as part of the Council's e-mail and Internet policies. Click here to report this email as spam. http://www.blackpool.gov.uk/EmailDisclaimer/ This message has been scanned for inappropriate or malicious content as part of the Council's e-mail and Internet policies. ****************************************************************************** See the Blackpool You Tube video aimed at attracting French visitors by clicking this link http://www.visitblackpool.com/jetaime ****************************************************************************** -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" gr... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. 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If I were to quote you as saying, "I love muffins.", the perso= n that "I" refers to in that is you, because within the quote, yo= u are the speaker. So yes, "I" and "you" do switch.

In the sentence, "You said it to me earlier.", the person bein= g addressed is "You", and the speaker is "me", obviousl= y.

If it were, "You said to me, 'I like muffins.', earlier.&qu= ot;, both "You"and "I" refer to you, because within the= context of the muffin quote, the speaker is you, while outside the audienc= e is you.

to pu benji di'u fo lo mi me la.android. fonxa toi

mu'o mi'e.aionys.

On Apr 28, 2011 9:38 AM, "Michael Eaton&q= uot; <michael.eaton@bl= ackpool.gov.uk> wrote:

So what happe= ns if YOU address ME? Do YOU beome I, while I become=20 YOU? Even if written from MY perspective? Consider the context of an=20 autobiography: if somebody addresses the biographer, I is no longer the spe= aker=20 (despite the fact that you are reading their presentation) as they are the= =20 person being addressed, and therefore the listener. At least from one=20 standpoint, anyway.
=A0
Also, you wou= ldn't want to introduce problems with sentences such=20 as "You said it to me earlier". I and YOU surely cannot be always= considered to=20 be in a fixed role of speaker and listener.


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