From lojban-beginners+bncCOjSjrXVGBCKi6HuBBoE5DbKNA@googlegroups.com Mon May 09 12:50:50 2011 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QJWTd-00057C-DP; Mon, 09 May 2011 12:50:49 -0700 Received: by wya21 with SMTP id 21sf9689474wya.16 for ; Mon, 09 May 2011 12:50:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=8pXiR0f0RUVq6s2tlJJDbq2A5t0yNu9t1OeFTiP/CXI=; b=nLyrgvBcEcfo2u6uHKu0XNdkW6qqTWC1pOKkNDMvbd51HmsX7f91suiZcsZ9xJ4Mfu S9eFA0DBC3NlAyJF/562XQMU4y7OAjkw0VfREmDo6gYaZCOGOJhzohrh6ztRtSqbNvAG G1zYN9clPyY1Mqs34bMFyjI9gTzwY5jf4EQ3k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=jrfhLouqiqrkGptKhURiiLGviwi4pk9SvykQ0WZsdaAxkNMFVr1BnQc4DP5vooiaEO mjidcHSPDGHzJrtnbTfl11RDZVzGBLqcERpccBUC7aOnZOmtOrCCayuWZglEyp2zX6Zi d+GNps2AKoesa5QQUau9VM0WAG9HcQhTqDMYY= Received: by 10.216.69.74 with SMTP id m52mr870443wed.25.1304970634800; Mon, 09 May 2011 12:50:34 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.11.92 with SMTP id 68ls412642eew.4.gmail; Mon, 09 May 2011 12:50:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.37.131 with SMTP id y3mr1089918eea.22.1304970633523; Mon, 09 May 2011 12:50:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.37.131 with SMTP id y3mr1089917eea.22.1304970633487; Mon, 09 May 2011 12:50:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ey0-f171.google.com (mail-ey0-f171.google.com [209.85.215.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 15si1701707eef.2.2011.05.09.12.50.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 09 May 2011 12:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.171; Received: by eydd26 with SMTP id d26so2208749eyd.2 for ; Mon, 09 May 2011 12:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.126.73 with SMTP id a49mr3311261eei.178.1304970632207; Mon, 09 May 2011 12:50:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.29.10 with HTTP; Mon, 9 May 2011 12:50:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <025af042-f0be-48ff-b7de-79434433d587@l2g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <201105062251.18981.phma@phma.optus.nu> From: Luke Bergen Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 15:50:12 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: ci lo gerku vs lo ci gerku To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e0cb4e6ffac3f99cbd04a2dd2683 --e0cb4e6ffac3f99cbd04a2dd2683 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But what's the purpose. {lo no gerku cu crino cirla .ije lo no gerku cu se rebla}. If you can say anything about {lo no gerku} (whether it is true or false) then what is the purpose of it? On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Michael Turniansky w= rote: > > > 2011/5/7 Jorge Llamb=EDas > >> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:51 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote= : >> > >> > What about "ro lo no prane ke xirdegmei namcu cu gumpilji lo su'o so >> ficysi'u >> > namcu"? ("xirdegmei" is opposed to "landegmei".) It has been proved th= at >> they >> > must have at least nine different factors, that they are not divisible >> by >> > 105, etc.; but no one has found a single one, and some mathematicians >> suspect >> > they don't exist. >> >> If you are saying that "ro lo no broda cu brode" could be interpreted >> as "if there were any broda, they would brode, but in fact there >> aren't any broda", then I guess you could interpret it that way. From >> a logical point of view "lo no broda" is both a referring expression >> and not referring to anything, so we can only try things like mixing >> two different contexts to make sense of it. >> >> mu'o mi'e xorxes >> > I don't believe "lo no gerku cu blabi" to be self > contradictory/nonsense. > Consider a room containing three white dogs -- lo ci gerku cu blabi > I take one away -- lo re gerku cu blabi > I take another away -- lo pa gerku cu blabi > I take the last one away -- lo no gerku cu blabi > Of course, when I take the last one away, I can equally truthfully say > "lo no gerku cu xekri". But in all those cases I can say "ro gerku [poi > zvati lo kumfa ku'o] cu blabi". It's jsut a question of whether I am > specifying their cardinality (ci,re,pa,no) or not (ro). > > --gejyspa > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --e0cb4e6ffac3f99cbd04a2dd2683 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But what's the purpose. =A0{lo no gerku cu crino cirla .ije lo no gerku= cu se rebla}. =A0If you can say anything about {lo no gerku} (whether it i= s true or false) then what is the purpose of it?

On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>= wrote:


2011/5/7 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:51 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
&g= t;
> What about "ro lo no prane ke xirdegmei namcu cu gumpilji l= o su'o so ficysi'u
> namcu"? ("xirdegmei" is opposed to "landegmei"= ;.) It has been proved that they
> must have at least nine different = factors, that they are not divisible by
> 105, etc.; but no one has f= ound a single one, and some mathematicians suspect
> they don't exist.

If you are saying that "ro lo = no broda cu brode" could be interpreted
as "if there were any = broda, they would brode, but in fact there
aren't any broda", t= hen I guess you could interpret it that way. From
a logical point of view "lo no broda" is both a referring express= ion
and not referring to anything, so we can only try things like mixing=
two different contexts to make sense of it.

mu'o mi'e xorxes
=A0 I don't believe "lo no gerku cu blabi" to be s= elf contradictory/nonsense.=A0
=A0 Consider a room containing three white dogs -- lo ci gerku cu blab= i
=A0 I take one away -- lo re gerku cu blabi
=A0=A0I take another away -- lo pa gerku cu blabi
=A0 I take the last one away -- lo no gerku cu blabi=A0
=A0=A0Of course, when I take the last one away, I can equally truthful= ly say "lo no gerku cu xekri".=A0 But in all those cases I can sa= y "ro gerku [poi zvati lo kumfa ku'o] cu blabi".=A0 It's = jsut a question of whether I am specifying their cardinality (ci,re,pa,no) = or not (ro).
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa
=A0
=A0

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