From lojban-beginners+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDFzqHuBBoEb7ze9A@googlegroups.com Mon May 09 15:14:50 2011 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QJYiu-0003Rx-D5; Mon, 09 May 2011 15:14:50 -0700 Received: by qyk36 with SMTP id 36sf25879828qyk.16 for ; Mon, 09 May 2011 15:14:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=etjZ3sDW7Pdy3fGGak7rsm81K3+4fU6uFUdEUCEqLjg=; b=USRpFW1M8S+OPdZ0G0dpX6bdh8iDNEyRFBFfJWecIzIJRm6XVlofnH/YfgoiWyryq6 4cN/eJW3Q5EaRNNYaR3vg/b/JKxmn+G4fuv9GiJ6BUYu+DKVLwLZ4BcODCpsp6ipjc7f ab1gLQ5rzrxZ/CvVdmqoNTdBD7zbqmlWY9YQA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=5ewFPUUn/qVYfdMo21cSCEbQqDtbFncHasWfkducNqoObngjbnAg67LiDpDkE48czs /+KOnueFBXWl5V3VQyagIZclXLrs4V+9SaHDI6gAWJQwv5uHVnjgUKTRpurbbK+nyybs 4Q1na3nd2UEpf7noYUbf9dI0MLrJonMbwYWXQ= Received: by 10.229.75.157 with SMTP id y29mr1083204qcj.11.1304979269617; Mon, 09 May 2011 15:14:29 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.47.70 with SMTP id m6ls1229116qcf.3.gmail; Mon, 09 May 2011 15:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.36.69 with SMTP id s5mr624548qcd.6.1304979268949; Mon, 09 May 2011 15:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.36.69 with SMTP id s5mr624547qcd.6.1304979268928; Mon, 09 May 2011 15:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f177.google.com ([209.85.220.177]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o8si1515598qcu.4.2011.05.09.15.14.28 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 09 May 2011 15:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.177; Received: by mail-vx0-f177.google.com with SMTP id 2so8463648vxd.8 for ; Mon, 09 May 2011 15:14:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.93.2 with SMTP id cq2mr681369vdb.49.1304979268740; Mon, 09 May 2011 15:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.185.167 with HTTP; Mon, 9 May 2011 15:14:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <025af042-f0be-48ff-b7de-79434433d587@l2g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <201105062251.18981.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 19:14:28 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: ci lo gerku vs lo ci gerku From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.177 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > > =A0 I don't believe "lo no gerku cu blabi" to be self contradictory/nonse= nse. > =A0 Consider a room containing three white dogs -- lo ci gerku cu blabi > =A0 I take one away -- lo re gerku cu blabi > =A0=A0I take another away -- lo pa gerku cu blabi > =A0 I take the last one away -- lo no gerku cu blabi But why stop there? You take the one after the last one away -- lo ni'u pa gerku cu blabi > =A0=A0Of course, when I take the last one away, I can equally truthfully = say "lo > no gerku cu xekri".=A0 But in all those cases I can say "ro gerku [poi zv= ati > lo kumfa ku'o] cu blabi". It's jsut a question of whether I am specifyin= g > their cardinality (ci,re,pa,no) or not (ro). The point is that there's no "they" to specify the cardinality of when there are no dogs. The set of dogs in the room has cardinality zero, but "lo gerku" refers to dogs, not to a set. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.