From lojban-beginners+bncCNf8pM-bDBCs8qTuBBoE2y3gRg@googlegroups.com Tue May 10 06:10:19 2011 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QJmha-0000b6-D2; Tue, 10 May 2011 06:10:18 -0700 Received: by gwb11 with SMTP id 11sf8596531gwb.16 for ; Tue, 10 May 2011 06:10:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=7qVYYQtXsfV40wxh93Y15yqyPLrnlCi0LQTcJLlik+w=; b=I5lWQqgXm5e7ERGCscsyP0sSvu0sB5KNoSWI37wVs8hvkYIpeAjW/n5Wyr/skKODWa V2YQ6gSDbOGNUa5EE3kEOgZ32lxdTxnh64m8rc2JYNagr+5fPdtLa4pt97I7zX327/Mx 0jfJqaqfrdqhtI+gtaT0gaZTcQ1GeqLkUGTjc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=ava1w0haKdsIsFBpyVoET+tj9/HyBtUbkySEvsTPBJfIaKSEOJANGJ0A3DdJHRqs6P rG8nBwKEidm9nlVXwzaRrJPwtD3pr2Zq7voC4x9yrLsqVlEiIVA/5OuZe/edtTw4humI z+ioD5Quo366lwKupN4vxZhuHLNdmGayA46DY= Received: by 10.151.89.37 with SMTP id r37mr957659ybl.52.1305033004353; Tue, 10 May 2011 06:10:04 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.151.14.8 with SMTP id r8ls1764887ybi.3.gmail; Tue, 10 May 2011 06:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.106.2 with SMTP id i2mr1483348ybm.1.1305033003518; Tue, 10 May 2011 06:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.127.19 with SMTP id e19msybn; Tue, 10 May 2011 04:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.96.164 with SMTP id dt4mr1343404vdb.11.1305024042896; Tue, 10 May 2011 03:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.96.164 with SMTP id dt4mr1343403vdb.11.1305024042889; Tue, 10 May 2011 03:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qw0-f47.google.com (mail-qw0-f47.google.com [209.85.216.47]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fl21si1703791vbb.3.2011.05.10.03.40.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 10 May 2011 03:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.47; Received: by mail-qw0-f47.google.com with SMTP id 5so4166727qwh.20 for ; Tue, 10 May 2011 03:40:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.14.197 with SMTP id h5mr5974644qca.244.1305024042144; Tue, 10 May 2011 03:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.95.75 with HTTP; Tue, 10 May 2011 03:40:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <025af042-f0be-48ff-b7de-79434433d587@l2g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <201105062251.18981.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:40:41 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: ci lo gerku vs lo ci gerku From: tijlan To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: paskios@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.47 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=paskios@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 9 May 2011 20:44, Michael Turniansky wrote: > =A0 I don't believe "lo no gerku cu blabi" to be self contradictory/nonse= nse. > =A0 Consider a room containing three white dogs -- lo ci gerku cu blabi > =A0 I take one away -- lo re gerku cu blabi > =A0=A0I take another away -- lo pa gerku cu blabi > =A0 I take the last one away -- lo no gerku cu blabi > =A0=A0Of course, when I take the last one away, I can equally truthfully = say "lo > no gerku cu xekri". In your example, "na xekri" may be true for "lo ci gerku poi blabi"; otherwise, we can't determine whether or not "na xekri" holds at all in the given context. You can truthfully say a) some particular things are not xekri, or b) nothing of some particular things are xekri. That is, if any statement with "xekri" is to have any discernible truth value in the particular domain of discourse of your example, it must make reference to "lo ci gerku poi blabi" (or alternatively "lo gerku poi blabi gi'e ci mei"); "... cu (ja'a) xekri" can be said to be true only if the x1 refers to that particular given entity AND is quantified with "no": no lo gerku cu xekri Not: lo no gerku cu xekri mu'o --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.