From lojban-beginners+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCQybHuBBoEy9ZrSw@googlegroups.com Thu May 12 15:52:12 2011 Received: from mail-vx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QKejq-0003Nj-0j; Thu, 12 May 2011 15:52:12 -0700 Received: by vxk20 with SMTP id 20sf960259vxk.16 for ; Thu, 12 May 2011 15:52:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FkfQDBJx62ByFJ1fHvuhK9j86NwPRqNf2mqaWQDB748=; b=Yir9xGQQi1O185VKyGzxYPBeOSIiJurph09klEu+qhkxoF7DH8gpuqMQisXh2r2974 VHGdkkgPlIJK/TPJ+g9BIvHRxuf1bNTfAmbqQnT1PPwk/wvkPs/e5KO8oU/xPrIdNHNW /8p7jKVDD/j9EXbmdn3csrT1lf1N3wqv50+g8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=Hgif3oY+1RctY8cittfA25nm/eO17Z0LohreBBsObyD8gdE2/SHolNQYtR7jaxxW8T shI8fZIKi6PCVLykomdlN4wQrJVyt8doKKqRHWeHJ/fZTuN6mzIPg23rpvRBAxVRSGh7 enFzNMRxWQIh1RTMukLskYqBeVHmJGuBvY2wM= Received: by 10.220.116.203 with SMTP id n11mr94532vcq.45.1305240720133; Thu, 12 May 2011 15:52:00 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.162.2 with SMTP id t2ls273353vcx.0.gmail; Thu, 12 May 2011 15:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.123.90 with SMTP id o26mr139862vcr.4.1305240718820; Thu, 12 May 2011 15:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.123.90 with SMTP id o26mr139861vcr.4.1305240718784; Thu, 12 May 2011 15:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f172.google.com ([209.85.220.172]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j37si165458vcs.13.2011.05.12.15.51.57 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 12 May 2011 15:51:57 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.172 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.172; Received: by vxg33 with SMTP id 33so1494318vxg.3 for ; Thu, 12 May 2011 15:51:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.116.33 with SMTP id jt1mr1119735vdb.249.1305240717573; Thu, 12 May 2011 15:51:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.185.167 with HTTP; Thu, 12 May 2011 15:51:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <025af042-f0be-48ff-b7de-79434433d587@l2g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <201105062251.18981.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 19:51:57 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: ci lo gerku vs lo ci gerku From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.172 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 5:57 AM, tijlan wrote: >> >> Reason 2: You can't sensibly mean to refer to something which is-dog >> which is-none. > > =A0 But why not? Because if something is dog, then it is some, not none. That's what the "some", in "something" stands for. If you are referring to something, you are referring to something, not to nothing. What you are saying is that "lo no gerku" is a non-referring term, a term without any referents. Standard predicate logic doesn't have that kind of term, because interpreting a sentence consists (in part) in assigning referrents to each term. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.