From lojban-beginners+bncCOib25n_BhC9_5PvBBoEcNQJoQ@googlegroups.com Tue May 31 07:48:46 2011 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QRQFL-0002xo-95; Tue, 31 May 2011 07:48:46 -0700 Received: by wya21 with SMTP id 21sf13001039wya.16 for ; Tue, 31 May 2011 07:48:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Fm4MkNro++MVCxEgES3kjF2Vb8+XJXnVJgJSbsQI4Us=; b=5iIvgmf1Sodc4s6jZz2V/m0pj4xI3qFAXGL8wwZxCO3KtvXOHQrU2HQxpD8QFub1KZ kpitKK1IPa/bJbz6SGEXtwc/bVCJEzQXn2lVkIUHJTe8J8l01+tqICcO4VK4xP+fKjOU DmlmNs2dcuWu/s2LEGVBw173XIgJOhBG2DgH0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=koWwy1pPNQ6pVYGDOqDxBfG639JAmOvFqwkbZmeYQ4c7JETRemCCDA9m/7YzVwFv/5 WKLlff80pmMPBQgGL3QAlQ1LbyUfK0KJULPKvQfPy0i+ORD1fJpisuGG+7rq6kQJjptL FvdprZZW9oCA46+AVAOBGm71S20UyejGyfZsk= Received: by 10.216.78.133 with SMTP id g5mr1498935wee.19.1306853309814; Tue, 31 May 2011 07:48:29 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.14.136 with SMTP id d8ls682245eed.6.gmail; Tue, 31 May 2011 07:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.15.1 with SMTP id e1mr1364437eee.51.1306853308422; Tue, 31 May 2011 07:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.15.1 with SMTP id e1mr1364436eee.51.1306853308396; Tue, 31 May 2011 07:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f47.google.com (mail-fx0-f47.google.com [209.85.161.47]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b4si169363fab.0.2011.05.31.07.48.28 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 31 May 2011 07:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.47; Received: by fxm19 with SMTP id 19so3624454fxm.20 for ; Tue, 31 May 2011 07:48:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.126.214 with SMTP id d22mr4473147bks.21.1306853308219; Tue, 31 May 2011 07:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.166.130 with HTTP; Tue, 31 May 2011 07:48:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 10:48:27 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Just to double check, about {da} and quantifiers From: ".arpis." To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.47 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dbe86e35c34404a4937f7c --0016e6dbe86e35c34404a4937f7c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable uinai u'u ro'a I didn't want to start this back up. On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > 2011/5/31 Jorge Llamb=EDas : > > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Michael Turniansky > > wrote: > >> 2011/5/30 Jorge Llamb=EDas : > >>> On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 7:48 PM, .arpis. > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Specifically, in the restricted case, > >>>> (assuming there are no cat-dogs in the universe) what does {ro da po= i > ke'a > >>>> gerku je mlatu cu broda} mean? > >>> > >>> It means: > >>> > >>> ro da zo'u ganai da gerku je mlatu gi da broda > >>> > >>> it means that whether there are cat-dogs or not. > >>> > >>>> Is it false, true, meaningless? > >>> > >>> If there are no cat-dogs, it's true, since for every value of da it > >>> will be false that da gerku je mlatu. > >> > >> Which is precisely why I say that every "lo no broda cu brode" > >> construction is also true. But no one seems to believe me :,-( > > > > "Precisely why"? > > > > You are using a referring expression that doesn't refer. That's > > something that requires at least some explanation of some arbitratry > > conventions. > > > > The truth of "ro da zo'u ga naku da broda gi da brode" when "da broda" > > is false for every value of the variable "da" does not require any > > special convention. > > Except that you have to specify (or know by some external means) > that there are no true values of da that are broda in order to make > "ro da poi broda" =3D "no da poi broda". "lo no broda" precisely makes > that specification. It doesn't require any arbitrary conventions. It > works like all other lo PA broda. > > --gejyspa > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .arpis. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --0016e6dbe86e35c34404a4937f7c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable uinai u'u ro'a
I didn't want to start this back up.

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Michael Turnians= ky <mturnians= ky@gmail.com> wrote:
2011/5/31 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Michael Turniansky<= br> > <mturniansky@gmail.com= > wrote:
>> 2011/5/30 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
>>> On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 7:48 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:<= br> >>>>
>>>> Specifically, in the restricted case,
>>>> (assuming there are no cat-dogs in the universe) what does= {ro da poi ke'a
>>>> gerku je mlatu cu broda} mean?
>>>
>>> It means:
>>>
>>> =A0 ro da zo'u ganai da gerku je mlatu gi da broda
>>>
>>> it means that whether there are cat-dogs or not.
>>>
>>>> Is it false, true, meaningless?
>>>
>>> If there are no cat-dogs, it's true, since for every value= of da it
>>> will be false that da gerku je mlatu.
>>
>> =A0 Which is precisely why I say that every "lo no broda cu b= rode"
>> construction is also true. =A0But no one seems to believe me :,-(<= br> >
> "Precisely why"?
>
> You are using a referring expression that doesn't refer. That'= s
> something that requires at least some explanation of some arbitratry > conventions.
>
> The truth of "ro da zo'u ga naku da broda gi da brode" w= hen "da broda"
> is false for every value of the variable "da" does not requi= re any
> special convention.

=A0Except that you have to specify (or know by some external means)<= br> that there are no true values of da that are broda =A0in order to make
"ro da poi broda" =3D "no da poi broda". "lo no br= oda" precisely makes
that specification. =A0It doesn't require any arbitrary conventions. = =A0It
works like all other lo PA broda.

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .arpis.

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