From lojban-beginners+bncCKmy2o7eDhCdnbnwBBoEAsonmg@googlegroups.com Fri Jul 01 15:48:07 2011 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QcmVK-0007UI-2z; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 15:48:07 -0700 Received: by yxj20 with SMTP id 20sf376407yxj.16 for ; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 15:48:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vjKNf6b0ofU0CBbrKr9+ilE4a7SQN0UbCKqW5WrkEq0=; b=b3v2eoyL/zqHPMhGy/6q1eol7R/3/3k4cLS1KUw4UG/N5gCfItpL1ikH5IpWa+lMs/ eX8SghO4YWoFQBKg7AameG/60yZVHXzJS69QUXFzuea+ZfQkjmyJnhNXWLi9mgBCP2Ok 9KbbuYjwW9+Jxm2myBfxamUBTQqTRaFUd/IK4= Received: by 10.151.25.19 with SMTP id c19mr462820ybj.36.1309560477809; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 15:47:57 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.151.33.30 with SMTP id l30ls1663249ybj.0.gmail; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 15:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.138.194 with SMTP id a42mr2166951yhj.9.1309560471212; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 15:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.135.8 with SMTP id m8msybn; Fri, 1 Jul 2011 15:43:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.9.37 with SMTP id m37mr443204ani.23.1309560221606; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 15:43:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by k16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Fri, 1 Jul 2011 15:43:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 15:43:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1665dd93-53b2-4442-8b6d-ab80aabdcbda@b21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <9454fde3-7042-4c60-82d9-776f51b07b5c@t38g2000prj.googlegroups.com> <8ecaf8d7-810f-41e7-b4cc-9208b696f6ce@g16g2000yqg.googlegroups.com> <10004ed4-220c-4c41-8fb9-57de30a45bb3@16g2000yqy.googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/5.0,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: <9f4ea774-cf05-4af3-94c7-5e2505aa7ed2@k16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: {le} and {lo} From: Ben Foppa To: Lojban Beginners X-Original-Sender: eatingstaples@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Jul 1, 8:44=A0am, tijlan wrote: > Yes. But that isn't the only thing {le} implies, and that isn't > something which can be implied by only {le}. A sumti described as > {gerku} might have another identity in addition to {lo gerku} > regardless of whether or not its gadri is {le}. If there is {lo gerku > poi pendo mi}, the described object has at least two separate > identities: a dog & a friend. > > As to "standard": > A non-standard dog may still be considered a dog. The world's ugliest > dog is {lo gerku}, however abnormal its appearance may be. And we may > refer to it by {le gerku} too, by way of emphasizing the > particular-ness of the creature as an instance of {lo gerku}. You > could say it has a separate identity from standard dogs, but both > parties share the same generic identity as {lo gerku} nevertheless. By > extension, {le gerku} could arguably be used to refer to standard dogs > as well, by way of presenting them as distinct instances of {lo > gerku}, in that they are *standard* and not non-standard dogs (for > which {lo'e} is more conventional). Then I'm still thoroughly confused; it would seem that I would tell a story using {le} instead of {lo}, as long as I'm thinking of a persistent instance, and not talking about dogs in a more abstract sense. You seem to be implying that the distinction is more a question of emphasis, that {le} emphasizes the specificity of the dog, and {lo} implies its identity doesn't matter? --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.