From lojban-beginners+bncCNf8pM-bDBC8mL7xBBoEWeEC5Q@googlegroups.com Tue Jul 26 20:55:53 2011 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QlvDp-0004h8-Sj; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 20:55:52 -0700 Received: by qwh5 with SMTP id 5sf1169956qwh.16 for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 20:55:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=RZdG7ly/sICMSnIqeIkP5m3riLnAXn/LAxhhQymx11c=; b=5KR8iiu7456nDmztnLYCdmsqhSMqCFuABk+uRovpXXRMtoxNjeqBfps8MXVARU4+e8 wenGOlp5VqqkezpZrr3/7NFIRucynlSYYKss5bLUs9SXezPqNr62l4Te6KkH8J0PNBFm ocQ9XYIzarpPns5xl6kpP4jGljiCYNZ7A62Wk= Received: by 10.229.26.197 with SMTP id f5mr759791qcc.36.1311738940837; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 20:55:40 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.21.25 with SMTP id h25ls1383950qab.5.gmail; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 20:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.195.9 with SMTP id ea9mr5242693qab.27.1311738940402; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 20:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.176.139 with SMTP id be11msqab; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 01:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.100.39 with SMTP id ev7mr1570360vdb.26.1311670074690; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 01:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.100.39 with SMTP id ev7mr1570359vdb.26.1311670074650; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 01:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f173.google.com (mail-qy0-f173.google.com [209.85.216.173]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bv16si381301vdc.1.2011.07.26.01.47.54 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 26 Jul 2011 01:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.173 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.173; Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10so1899075qyk.18 for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 01:47:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.17.17 with SMTP id q17mr4047406qca.154.1311670074208; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 01:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.28.130 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 01:47:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 09:47:53 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Coining a lujvo: "evidence" From: tijlan To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: paskios@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.173 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=paskios@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 26 July 2011 05:42, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote: > Because {ganai abu jetnu ge lo du'u abu nibli by kei ku jetnu gi by jetnu}. > (In case my lojban is wrong) If A is true and {A nibli B} is true, then B is > true. That Lojban reads as: ganai < abu jetnu ge < lo du'u abu nibli by kei ku jetnu > gi < by jetnu > > [ gi ] < [ ? ] > The English would be translated more as: ganai < ge < abu jetnu > gi < lo du'u abu nibli by cu jetnu > gi < by jetnu > > You might be eating it to be polite, or because you've been deprived of food > for the last week; it is not true that there is a logical implication, but > your eating it _is_ evidence that you like it. What about nibli3? As far as the definition of {nibli} goes, a logical implication is not independent of a framework. It seems we could technically specify this x3 so as to express an entailment that's specific to a certain aspect of the observed event. The idea of implementing the distinction between "evidence" and "proof" using the same gismu comes to mind, and that reminds me of the discussion of the pair of "transparent" and "almost transparent". The following was suggested: [ja'a] klina = to be transparent na klina = to be not transparent na ru'e klina = to be weakly-not transparent --> to be almost transparent We might then think of having: [ja'a] nibli = to prove (in the sense of "some fact necessitates a certain truth proposition", not "someone demonstrates that a certain proposition is true") na nibli = to not prove na ru'e nibli = to weakly-not prove --> to almost prove I can imagine myself using a lujvo from "na ru'e nibli" for "x1 evidences x2 according to metaphysics x3", except that "ru'e" has no rafsi. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.