From lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhCk09_yBBoE5Qc7Ag@googlegroups.com Fri Aug 26 11:45:07 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qx1On-0004Ic-Na; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 11:45:06 -0700 Received: by fxd2 with SMTP id 2sf4723660fxd.16 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 11:44:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=SLlr5SdoGO0oWBORsqidWFuehObgmtQpJnahfR/TDwM=; b=T7/YlxqIVbFDHHnu4BTk3Cgu7/ID/Y5UloXetFwjXrkEM9YkFvfFeI5dqVba2xSt1C jKaQw4juHT62B2t6d/EmYcd++NV7gNzRPllgfBUQnx9sJqkR9eydVJFVukEw22NjHDbR /QZOzc6jhG57eTyEO/2X4opWgPAAgMudkkcIg= Received: by 10.223.5.16 with SMTP id 16mr460098fat.25.1314384292134; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 11:44:52 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.148.152 with SMTP id p24ls1976671bkv.0.gmail; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 11:44:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.154.3 with SMTP id m3mr270861bkw.17.1314384291033; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 11:44:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.154.3 with SMTP id m3mr270859bkw.17.1314384291001; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 11:44:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f41.google.com (mail-fx0-f41.google.com [209.85.161.41]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r28si854692fag.3.2011.08.26.11.44.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 26 Aug 2011 11:44:50 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.41; Received: by mail-fx0-f41.google.com with SMTP id 9so2901884fxg.28 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 11:44:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.24.21 with SMTP id t21mr2092049fab.24.1314384290453; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 11:44:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.41.68 with HTTP; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 11:44:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <41f3563c-23b4-4c7b-96fc-8b5fcd11033a@z1g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 12:44:50 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Lojban "r" From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174023a8bb187304ab6cf055 --0015174023a8bb187304ab6cf055 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yeah, well, I'd have to hear you say it, because I pronounce "pear", "pair", and "pare" the same: {peir}. Regardless, I'm pretty sure that your pronunciation of {lerfu} is incorrect, because the "er" in {lerfu} should sound like the "er" in payer". On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > Ok, but at the same time, {ei} is described as like the "ay" in "pay" which > is definitely NOT how I pronounce {lerfu}. Maybe "air" is a bad example. I > say {lerfu} such that the {er} part rymes with "pear" and NOT "payer" > > > On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> The Lojban sound-cluster that sounds like the English "air" is {eir}, not >> {er}. .ebu is pronounced as the "e" in "b*e*tt*e*r", ""w*e*t", "p*e*st", >> etc. The pronunciation example the CLL uses is "l*e*t", >> "What is Lojban?" lists the pronunciation in IPA as "e [E] ([e]): a front >> mid vowel" , >> "Lojban for Beginners" uses the example "g*e*t", >> and the English pronunciation guide uses the examples "b*e*t, l*e*ns" >> . >> >> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: >> >>> Is it? I thought the {er} in {lerfu} is supposed to be pronounced like >>> english "air" (but with the r being trilled or tapped or whatever). I think >>> if I heard someone in lojban say {lrfu} as though it rymed with "smurf-u" I >>> would laugh my zargu off. It's just so english-y sounding. >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >>> >>>> My point is that the "er" in "better" is pronounced comparably to the >>>> "er" in "lerfu". >>>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Alex Rozenshteyn < >>>> rpglover64@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I pronounce it as {betr} or if I'm enunciating as {betyr} >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Do you pronounce the English word better as "betteir"? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:40 AM, Viral Lamb wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> While trying to get back into learning lojban, I came across >>>>>>> something >>>>>>> I thought was rather important. When saying the word "lerfu" (which >>>>>>> means letter I think) I noticed that it sounds like I'm saying >>>>>>> "leirfu" (even though that isn't a word xD ). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I pronounce the letter "r" in lojban the same way I would in english, >>>>>>> and I found that's the root of the problem. When pronouncing the "e" >>>>>>> and "r" together, I can't help but say it like "leirfu". Using a >>>>>>> "trilled r" such as in spanish or esperanto, the "e" sound doesn't >>>>>>> turn into a "ei" sound. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is there any other way to pronounce the "r" in lojban, cuz I think I >>>>>>> can trill my "r"s most of the time, but I'm certainly not perfect. >>>>>>> Trying to say "hamstron" the way the guy in this video says it (1:15) >>>>>>> is certainly a challenge, yet good for practice. >>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INCr1bV8kGk >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is this a big problem, or am I making too big a fuss? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>>> >>>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Alex R >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com >>>>> . >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>> >>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --0015174023a8bb187304ab6cf055 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah, well, I'd have to hear you say it, because I pronounce "pear= ", "pair", and "pare" the same: {peir}.

Reg= ardless, I'm pretty sure that your pronunciation of {lerfu} is incorrec= t, because the "er" in {lerfu} should sound like the "er&quo= t; in payer".

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Luke Berge= n <lukeaberge= n@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok, but at the same time, {ei} is described as like the "ay" in &= quot;pay" which is definitely NOT how I pronounce {lerfu}. =A0Maybe &q= uot;air" is a bad example. =A0I say {lerfu} such that the {er} part ry= mes with "pear" and NOT "payer"


On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Jonathan Jo= nes <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
The Lojban sound-cluster that sounds like the English "air" is {e= ir}, not {er}. .ebu is pronounced as the "e" in "bett= er", ""wet", "pest", etc= . The pronunciation example the CLL uses is "let", "What is Loj= ban?" lists the pronunciation in IPA as "e [E] ([e= ]): a front mid vowel", "Lojban for Beginners" uses the = example "get", and= the English pronunciation guide uses the examples "b<= b style=3D"font-weight:normal">et, lens".

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at= 11:16 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
Is it? =A0I thought the {er} in {lerfu} is supposed to be pronounced like e= nglish "air" (but with the r being trilled or tapped or whatever)= . =A0I think if I heard someone in lojban say {lrfu} as though it rymed wit= h "smurf-u" I would laugh my zargu off. =A0It's just so engli= sh-y sounding.

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at= 1:09 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
My point is that the "er" in "better" is pronounced com= parably to the "er" in "lerfu".

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Alex Rozenshteyn <rpglover64@gmail.co= m> wrote:
I pronounce it as {betr} or if I'm enunc= iating as {betyr}

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>= ; wrote:
Do you pron= ounce the English word better as "betteir"?

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:40 AM, Viral Lamb <jms1992@comcast.net> wrote:
While trying to g= et back into learning lojban, I came across something
I thought was rather important. When saying the word "lerfu" (whi= ch
means letter I think) I noticed that it sounds like I'm saying
"leirfu" (even though that isn't a word xD ).

I pronounce the letter "r" in lojban the same way I would in engl= ish,
and I found that's the root of the problem. When pronouncing the "= e"
and "r" together, I can't help but say it like "leirfu&q= uot;. Using a
"trilled r" such as in spanish or esperanto, the "e" so= und doesn't
turn into a "ei" sound.

Is there any other way to pronounce the "r" in lojban, cuz I thin= k I
can trill my "r"s most of the time, but I'm certainly not per= fect.
Trying to say "hamstron" the way the guy in this video says it (1= :15)
is certainly a challenge, yet good for practice. http://www.youtube.com/wat= ch?v=3DINCr1bV8kGk

Is this a big problem, or am I making too big a fuss?

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmim= a lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot= Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )


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--
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

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To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo= pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Sid= e! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

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