From lojban-beginners+bncCOjSjrXVGBCB4N_yBBoE_uYu7A@googlegroups.com Fri Aug 26 12:12:17 2011 Received: from mail-vx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qx1p4-0005Ny-J5; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 12:12:16 -0700 Received: by vxh2 with SMTP id 2sf2557012vxh.16 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 12:12:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=3HB4WdLLcXTcdulrYxm6NbBfCCt//sTrXXi+T2qt8ds=; b=3xua30T1CLLH0qg9NzfQbGCoghwwuBf9UNPw9Y2IxE+h5DnFXCQLnrPRCn4FD9/gGO sUTPDkjZ6J1CvHKJz8aJLIQdAdGTqjwpe2MJnt4yalNiHWNv8ZyBPX+Zqm8IZ/ji5Yp3 mk8EYh8zOd6L90M9ABhCFH4mwLZNQnAbMUVx0= Received: by 10.220.115.5 with SMTP id g5mr411761vcq.29.1314385921579; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 12:12:01 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.52.164.3 with SMTP id ym3ls537212vdb.2.gmail; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 12:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.91.134 with SMTP id ce6mr1344028vdb.13.1314385920647; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 12:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.91.134 with SMTP id ce6mr1344027vdb.13.1314385920623; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 12:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f45.google.com (mail-vw0-f45.google.com [209.85.212.45]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m27si3658136qcz.2.2011.08.26.12.12.00 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 26 Aug 2011 12:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.45 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.45; Received: by mail-vw0-f45.google.com with SMTP id 17so4363420vws.18 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 12:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.93.11 with SMTP id cq11mr1625950vdb.80.1314385920386; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 12:12:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.163.135 with HTTP; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 12:11:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <41f3563c-23b4-4c7b-96fc-8b5fcd11033a@z1g2000prf.googlegroups.com> From: Luke Bergen Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 15:11:40 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Lojban "r" To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.45 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307cffcae1e54904ab6d51bf --20cf307cffcae1e54904ab6d51bf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 But it IS possible to have "lr" occur in a word and if "lr" sounds identical to "ler" then lojban loses audio-visual isomorphism. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 2:51 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > I don't see how that's a problem. I can't imagine a scenario in which > "lrfu" would occur, let alone one in which it could be confused with > {lerfu}. > > On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> If that's the case than the lojban "lerfu" and "lrfu" sound >> indistinguishable to me regardless of whether the r is trilled tapped or >> whathaveyou >> On Aug 26, 2011 2:44 PM, "Jonathan Jones" wrote: >> > Yeah, well, I'd have to hear you say it, because I pronounce "pear", >> "pair", >> > and "pare" the same: {peir}. >> > >> > Regardless, I'm pretty sure that your pronunciation of {lerfu} is >> incorrect, >> > because the "er" in {lerfu} should sound like the "er" in payer". >> > >> > On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Luke Bergen >> wrote: >> > >> >> Ok, but at the same time, {ei} is described as like the "ay" in "pay" >> which >> >> is definitely NOT how I pronounce {lerfu}. Maybe "air" is a bad >> example. I >> >> say {lerfu} such that the {er} part rymes with "pear" and NOT "payer" >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Jonathan Jones >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> The Lojban sound-cluster that sounds like the English "air" is {eir}, >> not >> >>> {er}. .ebu is pronounced as the "e" in "b*e*tt*e*r", ""w*e*t", >> "p*e*st", >> >>> etc. The pronunciation example the CLL uses is "l*e*t"< >> http://dag.github.com/cll/2/2/>, >> >> >>> "What is Lojban?" lists the pronunciation in IPA as "e [E] ([e]): a >> front >> >>> mid vowel" < >> http://lojban.org/publications/level0/brochure/phonapp.html>, >> >>> "Lojban for Beginners" uses the example "g*e*t"< >> http://www.tlg.uci.edu/%7Eopoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/less1.html#less1vowels >> >, >> >>> and the English pronunciation guide uses the examples "b*e*t, l*e*ns"< >> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Pronunciation+guide+in+English> >> >> >>> . >> >>> >> >>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Luke Bergen > >wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Is it? I thought the {er} in {lerfu} is supposed to be pronounced >> like >> >>>> english "air" (but with the r being trilled or tapped or whatever). I >> think >> >>>> if I heard someone in lojban say {lrfu} as though it rymed with >> "smurf-u" I >> >>>> would laugh my zargu off. It's just so english-y sounding. >> >>>> >> >>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Jonathan Jones > >wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> My point is that the "er" in "better" is pronounced comparably to >> the >> >>>>> "er" in "lerfu". >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Alex Rozenshteyn < >> >>>>> rpglover64@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> I pronounce it as {betr} or if I'm enunciating as {betyr} >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Jonathan Jones < >> eyeonus@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Do you pronounce the English word better as "betteir"? >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:40 AM, Viral Lamb > >wrote: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> While trying to get back into learning lojban, I came across >> >>>>>>>> something >> >>>>>>>> I thought was rather important. When saying the word "lerfu" >> (which >> >>>>>>>> means letter I think) I noticed that it sounds like I'm saying >> >>>>>>>> "leirfu" (even though that isn't a word xD ). >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> I pronounce the letter "r" in lojban the same way I would in >> english, >> >>>>>>>> and I found that's the root of the problem. When pronouncing the >> "e" >> >>>>>>>> and "r" together, I can't help but say it like "leirfu". Using a >> >>>>>>>> "trilled r" such as in spanish or esperanto, the "e" sound >> doesn't >> >>>>>>>> turn into a "ei" sound. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Is there any other way to pronounce the "r" in lojban, cuz I >> think I >> >>>>>>>> can trill my "r"s most of the time, but I'm certainly not >> perfect. >> >>>>>>>> Trying to say "hamstron" the way the guy in this video says it >> (1:15) >> >>>>>>>> is certainly a challenge, yet good for practice. >> >>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INCr1bV8kGk >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Is this a big problem, or am I making too big a fuss? >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> -- >> >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> Google >> >>>>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >> >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >> >>>>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >>>>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >> >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> -- >> >>>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do >> zo'o >> >>>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> -- >> >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >>>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >> >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >> >>>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >>>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >> >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> -- >> >>>>>> Alex R >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> -- >> >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >> >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com >> >>>>>> . >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >> >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -- >> >>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> >>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -- >> >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >> >>>>> To post to this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >> >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> >>>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> >>>> To post to this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >>>> For more options, visit this group at >> >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >>> >> >>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> >>> To post to this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >>> For more options, visit this group at >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com >> . >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> > >> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --20cf307cffcae1e54904ab6d51bf Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But it IS possible to have "lr" occur in a word and if "lr&q= uot; sounds identical to "ler" then lojban loses audio-visual=A0i= somorphism.

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 2:51 = PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't see how that's a problem. I= can't imagine a scenario in which "lrfu" would occur, let al= one one in which it could be confused with {lerfu}.

On Fri, Au= g 26, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

If that's the case than the lojban "lerfu" and "lrf= u" sound indistinguishable to me regardless of whether the r is trille= d tapped or whathaveyou

On Aug 26, 2011 2:44 PM, "Jonathan Jon= es" <eyeonus= @gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, well, I'd = have to hear you say it, because I pronounce "pear", "pair&q= uot;,
> and "pare" the same: {peir}.
>
> Regardless, I&= #39;m pretty sure that your pronunciation of {lerfu} is incorrect,
> = because the "er" in {lerfu} should sound like the "er" = in payer".
>
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
>
>> Ok, but at the same time, {ei} is described = as like the "ay" in "pay" which
>> is definitely NOT how I pronounce {lerfu}. Maybe "air" = is a bad example. I
>> say {lerfu} such that the {er} part rymes = with "pear" and NOT "payer"
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:>>
>>> The Lojban sound-cluster that sounds like the En= glish "air" is {eir}, not
>>> {er}. .ebu is pronounced as the "e" in "b*e*tt*= e*r", ""w*e*t", "p*e*st",
>>> etc= . The pronunciation example the CLL uses is "l*e*t"<http://dag.github.com/cl= l/2/2/>,

>>> "What is Lojban?" lists the pronunciation in IPA as = "e [E] ([e]): a front
>>> mid vowel" <http://lojban.org/publications/level0/brochure/phonapp.html>= ;,
>>> "Lojban for Beginners" uses the example "g*e*t&= quot;<http://www.tlg.uci.edu/%7Eopou= djis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/less1.html#less1vowels>,
>>> and the English pronunciation guide uses the examples "b*= e*t, l*e*ns"<http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Pronunciation+= guide+in+English>

>>> .
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:1= 6 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>&g= t; Is it? I thought the {er} in {lerfu} is supposed to be pronounced like<= br> >>>> english "air" (but with the r being trilled or t= apped or whatever). I think
>>>> if I heard someone in lojb= an say {lrfu} as though it rymed with "smurf-u" I
>>>= > would laugh my zargu off. It's just so english-y sounding.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Jonat= han Jones <eyeonu= s@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My po= int is that the "er" in "better" is pronounced comparab= ly to the
>>>>> "er" in "lerfu".
>>>&g= t;>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Alex Rozen= shteyn <
>>>>> rpglover64@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I pronounce it as {betr} o= r if I'm enunciating as {betyr}
>>>>>>
>>= >>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>= wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you pronounce t= he English word better as "betteir"?
>>>>>>&= gt;
>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:40 AM, Viral = Lamb <jms1992@c= omcast.net>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While tryi= ng to get back into learning lojban, I came across
>>>>>&= gt;>> something
>>>>>>>> I thought was rat= her important. When saying the word "lerfu" (which
>>>>>>>> means letter I think) I noticed that it so= unds like I'm saying
>>>>>>>> "leirfu&q= uot; (even though that isn't a word xD ).
>>>>>>&g= t;>
>>>>>>>> I pronounce the letter "r" in lo= jban the same way I would in english,
>>>>>>>> a= nd I found that's the root of the problem. When pronouncing the "e= "
>>>>>>>> and "r" together, I can't he= lp but say it like "leirfu". Using a
>>>>>>&= gt;> "trilled r" such as in spanish or esperanto, the "e&= quot; sound doesn't
>>>>>>>> turn into a "ei" sound.
>&= gt;>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is there an= y other way to pronounce the "r" in lojban, cuz I think I
>>>>>>>> can trill my "r"s most of the ti= me, but I'm certainly not perfect.
>>>>>>>> = Trying to say "hamstron" the way the guy in this video says it (1= :15)
>>>>>>>> is certainly a challenge, yet good for pra= ctice.
>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v= =3DINCr1bV8kGk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is thi= s a big problem, or am I making too big a fuss?
>>>>>>= >>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>= >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=
>>>>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.=
>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to>>>>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email= to
>>>>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscr= ibe@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
&= gt;>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/l= ojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>= ;>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>&g= t;>>> --
>>>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys= .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> .i.e'ucai = ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
>>&= gt;>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>= ;>>>> --
>>>>>>> You received this mes= sage because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>&g= t; Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to
>&g= t;>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>>>&g= t;>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com.
>>>>>>> For more options, visit this= group at
>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an-beginners?hl=3Den.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>= ;>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>= ;>>>>> Alex R
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscrib= ed to the Google
>>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners&= quot; group.
>>>>>> To post to this group, send email = to l= ojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> .
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from = this group, send email to
>>>>>> lojban-begi= nners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>&= gt;>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?= hl=3Den.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>= ;>>>> --
>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
= >>>>>
>>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo piln= o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Y= ou received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>&g= t;>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
>>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@goog= legroups.com.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, s= end email to
>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.co= m.
>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>= ;>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginner= s?hl=3Den.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>= ;>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e Groups
>>>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>>= ;>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.co= m.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>&= gt;> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>= ;>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners= ?hl=3Den.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>&g= t;>
>>> --
>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>>>
>>> .i.= e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are = subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "Lojban Beginners"= ; group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@= googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> = lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>&= gt; For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl= =3Den.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> You rece= ived this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> To post to this gr= oup, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubs= cribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
&g= t;> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://= groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .= aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi= .luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your f= ather. :D )
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscri= bed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To pos= t to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginne= rs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this g= roup at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den<= /a>.
>

=

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'uca= i ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come t= o the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

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