From lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhCGz_PyBBoEOdivSg@googlegroups.com Tue Aug 30 06:37:25 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QyOVG-0006sB-BP; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 06:37:25 -0700 Received: by fxd2 with SMTP id 2sf7580469fxd.16 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 06:37:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=fMQvPHXKu8A1/qgjvX5+Ie6FeyVpDTxSuaAKyvb7tww=; b=sQDFvgIkyy1wJOZtCGZ3ySk7do3kP66Lft4tg/D+xd5eAJbb4407xDvlbafAUyg1pk cKoe7fC/R4Mmo4gxvWc4Kaa9LwwigCL44hdgL6+aB9Q6YjVUXsYQWB7u6isKYZrvKP5d lwUmrYlcOxjCHJHJfLHOSsp5jeKjft+V+t/EQ= Received: by 10.223.51.92 with SMTP id c28mr953031fag.36.1314711430792; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 06:37:10 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.148.152 with SMTP id p24ls143380bkv.0.gmail; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 06:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.139.84 with SMTP id d20mr36107bku.4.1314711428883; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 06:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.139.84 with SMTP id d20mr36106bku.4.1314711428850; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 06:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f42.google.com (mail-fx0-f42.google.com [209.85.161.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m9si1580615faf.0.2011.08.30.06.37.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 30 Aug 2011 06:37:07 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.42; Received: by fxe23 with SMTP id 23so11907615fxe.1 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 06:37:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.88.214 with SMTP id b22mr7237322fam.5.1314711427627; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 06:37:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.41.68 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 06:37:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <41f3563c-23b4-4c7b-96fc-8b5fcd11033a@z1g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <144c6f02-30c0-4257-88ab-5f2951c2fa48@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> <2fe2465c-df10-499c-9698-3eb60d4bc1a3@m35g2000prl.googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 07:37:07 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Lojban "r" From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd3f57ea03c6904abb91b31 --000e0cd3f57ea03c6904abb91b31 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I don't disagree. I just think that pronouncing {er} with a lean towards {yr} as I do has less problems than pronouncing it with a lean towards {eir}, as you do. On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 7:18 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: > When you said "lrfu" and "lerfu" are the same for you, you're effectively > saying that either "lrfu" has an arbitrary "e" inserted OR you're saying > that "lerfu" drops the "e". Either way, it's discomfiting. > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> No. There is no silent e in "better". A silent e is one that makes no >> sound. There is a silent e in "Euclid", "hate", "bite". >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Viral Lamb wrote: >> >>> you pronounce "er" like the "er" in "better"? That means your using a >>> silent 'e'? >>> >>> On Aug 29, 6:01 pm, Jonathan Jones wrote: >>> > I pronounce {er} like in "bett*er*". I pronounce {eir} like in "*air*". >>> The >>> > two do not sound alike, and I don't have Luke's problem with thinking >>> it >>> > sounds too "Englishy" to pronounce {er} like that. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 3:35 PM, Viral Lamb >>> wrote: >>> > > Uh, not being able to tell the difference between the 'e' and 'ei' >>> > > sound because of the letter 'r' does have the potential for >>> > > misunderstandings. This isn't just a "oh well its close enough", this >>> > > goes very much against one of the founding principles of the >>> language, >>> > > audiovisual isomorphism. Considering all the different cmene, lujvo, >>> > > and fu'ivla you could create, I see lots of room for this problem to >>> > > crop up. >>> > >>> > > And no, its not just "some people" who have a problem pronouncing >>> "er" >>> > > and "eir" differently, its everyone from what I can see. I've yet to >>> > > see how anyone "could" pronounce them differently. If anyone would >>> > > like to prove me wrong I'm all ears. >>> > >>> > > -- >>> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups >>> > > "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> > > To post to this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> > > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> > > For more options, visit this group at >>> > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>> > >>> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --000e0cd3f57ea03c6904abb91b31 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't disagree. I just think that pronouncing {er} with a lean toward= s {yr} as I do has less problems than pronouncing it with a lean towards {e= ir}, as you do.

On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at = 7:18 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
When you said "lrfu" and "le= rfu" are the same for you, you're effectively saying that either &= quot;lrfu" has an arbitrary "e" inserted OR you're sayin= g that "lerfu" drops the "e". =A0Either way, it's d= iscomfiting.

On Tue, Au= g 30, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wr= ote:
No. There is no silent e in "better". A silent e is one that make= s no sound. There is a silent e in "Euclid", "hate", &q= uot;bite".


On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Viral Lamb <jms1992@comcast.net&g= t; wrote:
you pronounce "er" like the "= er" in "better"? That means your using a
silent 'e'?

On Aug 29, 6:01=A0pm, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I pronounce {er} like in "bett*er*". I pronounce {eir} like = in "*air*". The
> two do not sound alike, and I don't have Luke's problem w= ith thinking it
> sounds too "Englishy" to pronounce {er} like that.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 3:35 PM, Viral Lamb <jms1...@comcast.net> w= rote:
> > Uh, not being able to tell the difference between the 'e'= and 'ei'
> > sound because of the letter 'r' does have the potential f= or
> > misunderstandings. This isn't just a "oh well its close = enough", this
> > goes very much against one of the founding principles of the lang= uage,
> > audiovisual isomorphism. Considering all the different cmene, luj= vo,
> > and fu'ivla you could create, I see lots of room for this pro= blem to
> > crop up.
>
> > And no, its not just "some people" who have a problem p= ronouncing "er"
> > and "eir" differently, its everyone from what I can see= . I've yet to
> > see how anyone "could" pronounce them differently. If a= nyone would
> > like to prove me wrong I'm all ears.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e Groups
> > "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.co= m.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= .
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo= 'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed t= o the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.




--
mu'= o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i d= oi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--000e0cd3f57ea03c6904abb91b31--