From lojban-beginners+bncCK7Yk5CUCxDahvfyBBoE1AqLYg@googlegroups.com Tue Aug 30 22:15:24 2011 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qyd8z-00074m-CI; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:15:23 -0700 Received: by gxk3 with SMTP id 3sf304249gxk.16 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:15:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ywonceCZUjai2oVrAtFIPV5cI4h4CYdv5wyBEC0GSaM=; b=yrVoEyw4RdgWZCSIVTbdIRDeJ1XwFikpOBWDKBkt1g27fayAFy6YHPcRvfuOqn8gGE IIEtt0dRUlnoV4bkccvUnUh9tRQuV1fDDiIY3iJ+XNoCmbig9w+MVra6VX6GT1ljAMnC ZkeiDpeRw7/59brBpo8RghVS4EK/3Sjsaqt2M= Received: by 10.100.77.8 with SMTP id z8mr1120195ana.17.1314767706932; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:15:06 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.204.19 with SMTP id g19ls16612269anq.5.gmail; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.184.65 with SMTP id r41mr1378386yhm.6.1314767706123; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.184.65 with SMTP id r41mr1378383yhm.6.1314767706113; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q1si2125020icv.3.2011.08.30.22.15.06 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.182; Received: by mail-iy0-f182.google.com with SMTP id x2so482697iad.41 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:15:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.133.7 with SMTP id f7mr7268533ict.161.1314767705928; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:15:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.178.71 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:15:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20110826170823.GB17646@alice.local> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 07:15:05 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Lojbanifying the Tranquility Calendar From: Remo Dentato To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rdentato@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rdentato@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 1:06 AM, Ian Johnson wrote= : > Making a fu'ivla for "tranquility" is malgli; making a fu'ivla for > "tranquil" and then using a {ka} or something similar is less malgli. I don't think, Ian. fui'vla are there exactly for importing from other language words that may have not counterpart in lojban. Is it malglico when one try to force a native language construct into lojban (e.g. "being a chicken" for being a coward) In this case we are not talking about the concept of "tranquility" that can best be done with a lujvo (i would go with {tolxanka} maybe) but we are talking about a specific word "Tranquiiity" which has been spoken on the Moon a certain day at a certain time. Personally, I would consider malglico trying to translate this "Tranquility" with a lujvo because a lujvo is a relation an not a word, it's just because in our native language there's not such distinction that we mix the two things. > (Frankly I think this would not be that hard to render in a lujvo. Perhap= s > with {cando}, although I'm not sure how well that applies to the ambient > notion of tranquility.) Yes, in the end, we could build a lujvo for that, after all we can decide meaning for a lujvo quite arbitrarily but, again, I think that for things like this (I would expect some form of consistency when borrowing a calendar into lojban) fu'ivla are a good option. We probably use them too little and in too specific, obscure, occasions. > Also a possible problem is that the stress is (and > must be, to maintain brivla morphology) {tran-ku-i-LI-ti}, which sounds o= dd > to an English ear. This is true, The option would be to use {trankuilti} ({ui} is a diphton}) or an accent ({tranku=ECliti} {tranKUIliti}). Probably {trankuilti} would work the best. I realize I didn't give the gloss! {trankuilti} =3D "x1 is the epoch of the Tranquility calendar" remod --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.