From lojban-beginners+bncCML0xpmUARCVz_jyBBoEHU01bQ@googlegroups.com Wed Aug 31 05:23:04 2011 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qyjoq-0004di-L2; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 05:23:03 -0700 Received: by wyj26 with SMTP id 26sf559334wyj.16 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 05:22:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=scKWVU/cQSv0e2GZJzbzkFdvTX7+fucYdORFXMsq+gg=; b=52qGBJ6ARugZVHEWf4vRdUqUURU3vHk0cSZw8KuvZ1skhZLcEOomCQ+THRD/WM5Oy1 eiaGSFAfKhkHskkN8AQBJqan8AWmQ9ljsWcNgSLplKbe2w8iDt9nmebpfsZzEvzAfiNd yg8pgOZcwZ/bLZ9TXJV8c0+ul4ZJPfxWt5Bzg= Received: by 10.216.137.213 with SMTP id y63mr65083wei.5.1314793365535; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 05:22:45 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.39.202 with SMTP id d50ls924222eeb.2.gmail; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 05:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.0.201 with SMTP id 49mr76669eeb.15.1314793364423; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 05:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.0.201 with SMTP id 49mr76668eeb.15.1314793364399; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 05:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ey0-f174.google.com (mail-ey0-f174.google.com [209.85.215.174]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b11si15760458eei.0.2011.08.31.05.22.44 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 31 Aug 2011 05:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.174 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.174; Received: by eyx24 with SMTP id 24so526742eyx.19 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 05:22:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.30.145 with SMTP id u17mr185906fac.137.1314793364205; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 05:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.100.13 with HTTP; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 05:22:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20110826170823.GB17646@alice.local> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 08:22:44 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Lojbanifying the Tranquility Calendar From: Ian Johnson To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.174 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001517475ea26d324304abcc2f68 --001517475ea26d324304abcc2f68 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My mistake, I didn't click the link in the OP and took "Tranquility" literally. Now that I know what's going on, I'd just make a cmevla (mu'a {trankUIlitis}) and leave it at that. We don't need a relation for this purpose at all. mu'o mi'e latros On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Remo Dentato wrote: > On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 1:06 AM, Ian Johnson > wrote: > > Making a fu'ivla for "tranquility" is malgli; making a fu'ivla for > > "tranquil" and then using a {ka} or something similar is less malgli. > > I don't think, Ian. fui'vla are there exactly for importing from other > language words that may have not counterpart in lojban. Is it malglico > when one try to force a native language construct into lojban (e.g. > "being a chicken" for being a coward) > > In this case we are not talking about the concept of "tranquility" > that can best be done with a lujvo (i would go with {tolxanka} maybe) > but we are talking about a specific word "Tranquiiity" which has been > spoken on the Moon a certain day at a certain time. > > Personally, I would consider malglico trying to translate this > "Tranquility" with a lujvo because a lujvo is a relation an not a > word, it's just because in our native language there's not such > distinction that we mix the two things. > > > (Frankly I think this would not be that hard to render in a lujvo. > Perhaps > > with {cando}, although I'm not sure how well that applies to the ambien= t > > notion of tranquility.) > > Yes, in the end, we could build a lujvo for that, after all we can > decide meaning for a lujvo quite arbitrarily but, again, I think that > for things like this (I would expect some form of consistency when > borrowing a calendar into lojban) fu'ivla are a good option. We > probably use them too little and in too specific, obscure, occasions. > > > Also a possible problem is that the stress is (and > > must be, to maintain brivla morphology) {tran-ku-i-LI-ti}, which sounds > odd > > to an English ear. > > This is true, The option would be to use {trankuilti} ({ui} is a > diphton}) or an accent ({tranku=ECliti} {tranKUIliti}). Probably > {trankuilti} would work the best. > > I realize I didn't give the gloss! {trankuilti} =3D "x1 is the epoch of > the Tranquility calendar" > > remod > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --001517475ea26d324304abcc2f68 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My mistake, I didn't click the link in the OP and took "Tranquilit= y" literally. Now that I know what's going on, I'd just make a= cmevla (mu'a {trankUIlitis}) and leave it at that. We don't need a= relation for this purpose at all.

mu'o mi'e latros

On Wed, Aug = 31, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 1:06 AM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote: > Making a fu'ivla for "tranquility" is malgli; making a f= u'ivla for
> "tranquil" and then using a {ka} or something similar is les= s malgli.

I don't think, Ian. fui'vla are there exactly for importing f= rom other
language words that may have not counterpart in lojban. Is it malglico
when one try to force a native language construct into lojban (e.g.
"being a chicken" for being a coward)

In this case we are not talking about the concept of "tranquility"= ;
that can best be done with a lujvo (i would go with {tolxanka} maybe)
but we are talking about a specific word "Tranquiiity" which has = been
spoken on the Moon a certain day at a certain time.

Personally, I would consider malglico trying to translate this
"Tranquility" with a lujvo because a lujvo is a relation an not a=
word, it's just because in our native language there's not such
distinction that we mix the two things.

> (Frankly I think this would not be that hard to render in a lujvo. Per= haps
> with {cando}, although I'm not sure how well that applies to the a= mbient
> notion of tranquility.)

Yes, in the end, we could build a lujvo for that, after all we can decide meaning for a lujvo quite arbitrarily but, again, I think that
for things like this (I would expect some form of consistency when
borrowing a calendar into lojban) fu'ivla are a good option. =A0We
probably use them too little and in too specific, obscure, occasions.

> Also a possible problem is that the stress is (and
> must be, to maintain brivla morphology) {tran-ku-i-LI-ti}, which sound= s odd
> to an English ear.

This is true, The option would be to use {trankuilti} ({ui} is a
diphton}) or an accent =A0({tranku=ECliti} {tranKUIliti}). Probably
{trankuilti} would work the best.

I realize I didn't give the gloss! =A0{trankuilti} =3D "x1 is the = epoch of
the Tranquility calendar"

remod

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