From lojban-beginners+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCd87DyBBoE6BWDDQ@googlegroups.com Wed Aug 17 14:59:06 2011 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qto8c-0007fb-Os; Wed, 17 Aug 2011 14:59:05 -0700 Received: by vwe42 with SMTP id 42sf1593220vwe.16 for ; Wed, 17 Aug 2011 14:58:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=J8l7bAZJrPuYhOVMVMwV/7aKGxoXXVQ6fANudI4HkaU=; b=2WHn7e5vDn++mWFg4/2ewQtt5m0p3102SxEu7pjX2kIfRXNeNUrtbu/9t/8M1n47jZ 8I2xNX3lc2zXQe1txco9F2MZcaaODF9QpvBc0/E9XfJxR8IgQvw6vt6lRSJnbaxM1Oa7 lm74skw8oif/qzQjHDdrFWwB5prLbAQ8XAwMg= Received: by 10.220.192.134 with SMTP id dq6mr657353vcb.19.1313618333083; Wed, 17 Aug 2011 14:58:53 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.52.24.163 with SMTP id v3ls2738226vdf.3.gmail; Wed, 17 Aug 2011 14:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.108.131 with SMTP id hk3mr1577334vdb.8.1313618332470; Wed, 17 Aug 2011 14:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.108.131 with SMTP id hk3mr1577333vdb.8.1313618332462; Wed, 17 Aug 2011 14:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f170.google.com ([209.85.220.170]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t2si4208116vdv.2.2011.08.17.14.58.52 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 17 Aug 2011 14:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.170 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.170; Received: by vxh24 with SMTP id 24so2645975vxh.1 for ; Wed, 17 Aug 2011 14:58:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.23.235 with SMTP id p11mr1616117vdf.232.1313618331982; Wed, 17 Aug 2011 14:58:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.101.170 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Aug 2011 14:58:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 18:58:51 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Tenses and Event Contours From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.170 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 12:19 AM, volcpitar wrote: > > 1. Do ba'o and pu'o imply "shortly after" and "shortly before" or "any > time after" and "any time before"? ZAhOs are aspects, not tenses, so they are not really about "when". In the absence of an explicit tense marker or any contextual indication to the contrary, a bridi will normally be taken to be about the present, so: [nau] ba'o carvi = [here and now] it has rained [nau] pu'o carvi = [here and now] it is going to rain Now the "ca'o carvi" stage, the "it is raining", could be anytime before/after the present, respectively. But just as in English you are unlikely to say "it has rained" or "it is going to rain" if you don't see signs that it has rained or that it is going to rain, or in some other way the raining is relevant to the time being talked about (in this case the present). So in practice, just from a relevance point of view, it is more likely that you wil be describing the aftermath/beforemath of a recent or proximate event. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.