From lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhCOsN_yBBoEcBt06g@googlegroups.com Fri Aug 26 10:30:05 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qx0EC-00058d-3P; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 10:30:04 -0700 Received: by fxd2 with SMTP id 2sf4659217fxd.16 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 10:29:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=fGbTPl6YwWJ3IfrWB7q3wKUTqT7ZL9KteGzG706v55Q=; b=hU0CtmuY77FQdwI9siXkIzUtO52qCaVW9f/f84NgUNyIgfZQuVGRmpx29DN72fB2wD iU+GGqb578CAqsEni1TtYbXm/jQQaW4YI+BoiokO/nHVHw+7zQYbfdZmnMJJNmESxvnr 1MC98MuGv3RdoGUv17LST3pm+RlocQuYq8s+U= Received: by 10.223.101.20 with SMTP id a20mr275293fao.33.1314379790327; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 10:29:50 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.50.196 with SMTP id a4ls1932927bkg.1.gmail; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 10:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.140.141 with SMTP id i13mr262345bku.6.1314379789006; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 10:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.140.141 with SMTP id i13mr262344bku.6.1314379788979; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 10:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f42.google.com (mail-fx0-f42.google.com [209.85.161.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t20si831266fab.2.2011.08.26.10.29.48 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 26 Aug 2011 10:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.42; Received: by mail-fx0-f42.google.com with SMTP id 23so6154879fxe.1 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 10:29:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.22.14 with SMTP id l14mr1971265fab.100.1314379788727; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 10:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.41.68 with HTTP; Fri, 26 Aug 2011 10:29:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <41f3563c-23b4-4c7b-96fc-8b5fcd11033a@z1g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 11:29:48 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Lojban "r" From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151747bc2e6838e604ab6be4bf --00151747bc2e6838e604ab6be4bf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The Lojban sound-cluster that sounds like the English "air" is {eir}, not {er}. .ebu is pronounced as the "e" in "b*e*tt*e*r", ""w*e*t", "p*e*st", etc. The pronunciation example the CLL uses is "l*e*t", "What is Lojban?" lists the pronunciation in IPA as "e [E] ([e]): a front mid vowel" , "Lojban for Beginners" uses the example "g*e*t", and the English pronunciation guide uses the examples "b*e*t, l*e*ns" . On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: > Is it? I thought the {er} in {lerfu} is supposed to be pronounced like > english "air" (but with the r being trilled or tapped or whatever). I think > if I heard someone in lojban say {lrfu} as though it rymed with "smurf-u" I > would laugh my zargu off. It's just so english-y sounding. > > On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> My point is that the "er" in "better" is pronounced comparably to the "er" >> in "lerfu". >> >> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote: >> >>> I pronounce it as {betr} or if I'm enunciating as {betyr} >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >>> >>>> Do you pronounce the English word better as "betteir"? >>>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:40 AM, Viral Lamb wrote: >>>> >>>>> While trying to get back into learning lojban, I came across something >>>>> I thought was rather important. When saying the word "lerfu" (which >>>>> means letter I think) I noticed that it sounds like I'm saying >>>>> "leirfu" (even though that isn't a word xD ). >>>>> >>>>> I pronounce the letter "r" in lojban the same way I would in english, >>>>> and I found that's the root of the problem. When pronouncing the "e" >>>>> and "r" together, I can't help but say it like "leirfu". Using a >>>>> "trilled r" such as in spanish or esperanto, the "e" sound doesn't >>>>> turn into a "ei" sound. >>>>> >>>>> Is there any other way to pronounce the "r" in lojban, cuz I think I >>>>> can trill my "r"s most of the time, but I'm certainly not perfect. >>>>> Trying to say "hamstron" the way the guy in this video says it (1:15) >>>>> is certainly a challenge, yet good for practice. >>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INCr1bV8kGk >>>>> >>>>> Is this a big problem, or am I making too big a fuss? >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com >>>>> . >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>> >>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Alex R >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --00151747bc2e6838e604ab6be4bf Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Lojban sound-cluster that sounds like the English "air" is {e= ir}, not {er}. .ebu is pronounced as the "e" in "bett= er", ""wet", "pest", etc= . The pronunciation example the CLL uses is "let", "What is Lojban?" lists t= he pronunciation in IPA as "e [E] ([e]): a front mid vowel", &qu= ot;Lojban for Beginners" uses the example "g= et", and the English pronunciation guide uses the examples "b<= u>et, lens".

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Luke Berge= n <lukeaberge= n@gmail.com> wrote:
Is it? =A0I thought the {er} in {lerfu} is supposed to be pronounced like e= nglish "air" (but with the r being trilled or tapped or whatever)= . =A0I think if I heard someone in lojban say {lrfu} as though it rymed wit= h "smurf-u" I would laugh my zargu off. =A0It's just so engli= sh-y sounding.

On Fri, Au= g 26, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wr= ote:
My point is that the "er" in "better" is pronounced com= parably to the "er" in "lerfu".

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Alex Rozenshteyn <rpglover64@gmail.co= m> wrote:
I pronounce it as {betr} or if I'm enunc= iating as {betyr}

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>= ; wrote:
Do you pron= ounce the English word better as "betteir"?

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:40 AM, Viral Lamb <jms1992@comcast.net> wrote:
While trying to g= et back into learning lojban, I came across something
I thought was rather important. When saying the word "lerfu" (whi= ch
means letter I think) I noticed that it sounds like I'm saying
"leirfu" (even though that isn't a word xD ).

I pronounce the letter "r" in lojban the same way I would in engl= ish,
and I found that's the root of the problem. When pronouncing the "= e"
and "r" together, I can't help but say it like "leirfu&q= uot;. Using a
"trilled r" such as in spanish or esperanto, the "e" so= und doesn't
turn into a "ei" sound.

Is there any other way to pronounce the "r" in lojban, cuz I thin= k I
can trill my "r"s most of the time, but I'm certainly not per= fect.
Trying to say "hamstron" the way the guy in this video says it (1= :15)
is certainly a challenge, yet good for practice. http://www.youtube.com/wat= ch?v=3DINCr1bV8kGk

Is this a big problem, or am I making too big a fuss?

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.




--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmim= a lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot= Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )


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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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--
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--00151747bc2e6838e604ab6be4bf--