On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@g= mail.com> wrote:

Capitalization: meh. {la} and {.= i} and {ni'o} are better than capitalization in my book.

Soulles= s: I couldn't disagree more. Lojban is lively; it's full of life an= d zest. Attitudinals can be dropped in anywhere to spice up a sentence; fle= xibility of syntax keeps things mixed up plenty. English loses some of its = *grammatical* soul because it has so many restrictions that pop up mid-sent= ence. It doesn't conform rigidly to rules but if you don't conform = reasonably to a rather extensive set of rules, you get a sentence that is a= t best awkward and at worst severely ambiguous. ("I used one of the th= ings that Joe proved completely incorrectly" is a real world example, = which actually offended "Joe" until I explained.)

Unemotional: again, no. The lack of ambiguity in Lojban is in its synta= x and grammar; a phoneme stream parses in exactly zero or one ways. It is n= ot necessarily *read* in exactly zero or one ways. This is a fundamental di= stinction between *ambiguity* and *vagueness*. Not all meaning must be spec= ified in Lojban, but what meaning is specified cannot be interpreted entire= ly differently from how it was intended by the speaker. Hence Lojban can (a= nd very very often is) vague, but cannot be ambiguous. I think your love of= ambiguity is probably actually a love of vagueness.

Whether we need it or not: No one ever claimed that we needed it. It= 9;s perhaps been claimed that it can be useful, but I'd say the only th= ing which is outright universally asserted is that its students enjoy learn= ing it (which is of course circular, since few would study a conlang for ve= ry long if they weren't interested.)

=A0

I think that some people really did/do need Lojban/Loglan. For starter= s, there's James Cooke Brown, the inventor/creator of Loglan. Then Bob = and Nora LeChavalier and others in the Lojban Language Group. Then all the = people who spend time on Lojban instead of doing other fun/interesting/prod= uctive things with their time. Lojban was an idea whose time had come.

=A0

stevo

mu'o mi'e latros=20

On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 5:28 PM, John Smith <thantophobia295@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't know abo= ut lojban. =A0I just don't know. =A0I mean, what kind of
language is= n't even capitalized? =A0An unimportant one, that's what, or
at least that's what I learned in first grade. =A0Important things are<= br>capitalized.

I don't know a lot about this language, but I th= ink it's kind of
soulless. =A0Oh, yeah, I know, you've heard it = all before, but the thing
Spock didn't realize was that being completely logical IS the best
t= hing to do, IF you account for emotions. =A0Marrying someone to find
out= about their species? =A0That's about the least logical thing I've<= br> ever heard. =A0You have to realize that there's more to things than jus= t
cold, hard logic.

I think English is awesome. =A0All the other = languages make quite a bit
of sense, but English, no, English is like th= e badass language. =A0It
doesn't conform to rules. =A0It makes no sense at all. =A0Like, for
= example, a while ago I discovered that an alternate spelling for
"M= edieval" is "Mediaeval." =A0How awesome is that?!? =A0Seriou= sly, that's
so cool, when you spell it like that, it seems like you're actually
= some mediaeval knight or something who spells things weird.

Who care= s about unambiguity? =A0I love ambiguity. =A0Ambiguity is great.

And= you know what else? =A0It has to do with the feeling of "support"= ;
for words. =A0Like, instead of saying old, say olde, or colour instead
o= f color. =A0The modern words are all "new" and "chic," = but they don't
have that supporting spurious letter to give them tha= t English feel to
them. =A0It feels like the old words are heavy fortresses with
spuriousn= ess that makes it strong and firm, but the moderns say,
"Hey! =A0We= don't NEED those letters. =A0They're unnecessary. =A0Let's get=
rid of 'em!" =A0So now, the words no longer feel strong and firm; = now
they feel like they're hanging by a thread, supporting themselve= s, but
barely.

See what I did there?? =A0I put a semicolon! =A0I = love semicolons!
Whatever happened to semicolons? =A0Also, whatever happened to starting
= questions with "whatever" instead of just "what?" =A0Or= putting end
punctuation marks inside quotation marks even when it doesn= 't make
sense (technically proper grammar, actually)? =A0What fun is having no
p= unctuation? =A0No fun, that's what! =A0Punctuation is awesome! =A0Why w= ould
you want to get rid of it?

One of the things I really don= 9;t like about lojban is that there are
no capital letters! =A0What is that? =A0I love capital letters. =A0And
w= hat's more, I'm sure that if they DID use capital letters, they wou= ld
call them uppercase letters and abolish the word "capital!"= =A0How lame
is that?! =A0Haven't you ever said to someone, "Capital day, isn&#= 39;t it?"
Sounds cool, don't it?

In conclusion, I think = lojban has its advantages and disadvantages,
but really, do we really ne= ed it? =A0We already have perfectly good
languages. =A0I think people do this for fun, thinking, "Ha! =A0I'= ve
removed tiny problems from language. =A0All the tiniest inconsistenci= es
have been eliminated." =A0I think the problem is that it'sreductionist. =A0That is all.

P.S.: =A0Whatever happened to "Yes! yes! yes!"? =A0Is that co= ol or what?

--
You received this message = because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from = this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the G= oogle Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email= to lojban@goo= glegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.= com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--00151747913414fe2804addf9f19--