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Subject: [lojban] Re: Should we have another mailing list for abstruse discussions?
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 Content preview:  Shoot, I must not have been paying attention. I didn't realize
    anyone thought zo'e meant anything different. On Sep 20, 4:48 pm, Jonathan
    Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:40 PM, John
   E Clifford <kali9pu...@yahoo.com>wrote: > > > Good! Then you realize the importance
    of having the meaning of all > > expressions of Lojban as clearly laid out
    in formal terms as possible, so > > that computers (as of now at least, can
    understand). So you must recognize > > that the problems with {zo'e} are
   important, since that word preserves the > > place structure intact, rather
    than flittering away into mush when it is not > > used completely. > > Seeing
    as I intentionally haven't paid attention, at all, to that thread, I > don't
    even know what "problems" {zo'e} has. So, I'm going to say, no, I > don't
    re3cognixe that they are important. What I do recognize is that /I/, > personally,
    don't care. I'm not a linguist. To me {zo'e} means, basically, > "context-determined".
    That is, whatever it is within the context of the > jufra, or possibly the
    discussion, that would sensibly fit in the place > {zo'e} is being used (explicitly
    or implicitly), is what what {zo'e} means > in that place. I would not be
    surprised if a computer of today could not > understand that, but I do not
    think it is because {zo'e} is ill-defined, I > think it is because computers
    don't understand context, or even the concept > thereof. > > > I agree about
    Klingon, but I think tp is cute (subjective, as you say). > > And, of course,
    I like your definition of {lo broda}. > > It's not /my/ definition. It's
   /the/ definition. > > > > > > > > > *From:* Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com>
    > > *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com > > *Sent:* Tue, September 20, 2011 4:30:17
    PM > > > *Subject:* Re: [lojban] Should we have another mailing list for
   abstruse > > discussions? > > > My attraction to Lojban is the unambiguous-ness
    of it's pronunciation, that > > it is possible to be as specific or as clear
    as you want, and the place > > structure system it has due to being based
    on predicate logic. Oh yes, and > > that stated goal of [...] 
 
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Shoot, I must not have been paying attention. I didn't realize anyone
thought zo'e meant anything different.

On Sep 20, 4:48=A0pm, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:40 PM, John E Clifford <kali9pu...@yahoo.com>wr=
ote:
>
> > Good! =A0Then you realize the importance of having the meaning of all
> > expressions of Lojban as clearly laid out in formal terms as possible, =
so
> > that computers (as of now at least, can understand). =A0So you must rec=
ognize
> > that the problems with {zo'e} are important, since that word preserves =
the
> > place structure intact, rather than flittering away into mush when it i=
s not
> > used completely.
>
> Seeing as I intentionally haven't paid attention, at all, to that thread,=
 I
> don't even know what "problems" {zo'e} has. So, I'm going to say, no, I
> don't re3cognixe that they are important. What I do recognize is that /I/=
,
> personally, don't care. I'm not a linguist. To me {zo'e} means, basically=
,
> "context-determined". That is, whatever it is within the context of the
> jufra, or possibly the discussion, that would sensibly fit in the place
> {zo'e} is being used (explicitly or implicitly), is what what {zo'e} mean=
s
> in that place. I would not be surprised if a computer of today could not
> understand that, but I do not think it is because {zo'e} is ill-defined, =
I
> think it is because computers don't understand context, or even the conce=
pt
> thereof.
>
> > I agree about Klingon, but I think tp is cute (subjective, as you say).
> > And, of course, I like your definition of {lo broda}.
>
> It's not /my/ definition. It's /the/ definition.
>
>
>
>
>
> > ------------------------------
> > *From:* Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com>
> > *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com
> > *Sent:* Tue, September 20, 2011 4:30:17 PM
>
> > *Subject:* Re: [lojban] Should we have another mailing list for abstrus=
e
> > discussions?
>
> > My attraction to Lojban is the unambiguous-ness of it's pronunciation, =
that
> > it is possible to be as specific or as clear as you want, and the place
> > structure system it has due to being based on predicate logic. Oh yes, =
and
> > that stated goal of being able to talk to computers and have them /actu=
ally
> > understand you/.
>
> > I don't take up Klingon because I'm not a Trekkie. While I do like the =
Star
> > Trek franchise, I'm not enough of a fan to devote time to learn a langu=
age
> > spoken by a fictitious race of war-mongers. /IF/ I were going to learn =
the
> > language of a star Trek species, I'd learn Vulcan. The only Klingon I e=
ver
> > liked was Torres on Voyager, and she was milato.
>
> > I don't take up toki pona because it's ugly. I realize that's a subject=
ive
> > argument, but meh. I'm allowed.
>
> > {lo broda} means "one or more things which actually fit into the x1 slo=
t of
> > the predicate {broda}".
>
> > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:09 PM, John E Clifford <kali9pu...@yahoo.com>=
wrote:
>
> >> Well, in keeping with the saying, what is the attraction of Lojban to
> >> you? =A0Why not take up Klingon, which has a definite culture and defi=
nitive
> >> answers to your haja questions (haja form the pluperfect subjunctive?,=
 a
> >> question liable to get more muddy than xorlo in Lojban)? =A0Or toki po=
na, that
> >> takes about a day to learn enough to carry on conversations on a range=
 of
> >> things and contribute to the list? And, while most of your contributio=
ns
> >> have been about haja questions or general learning aids (the best app =
for
> >> your smartphone, say), you have taken part in earlier rounds of the et=
ernal
> >> xorlo issue so, are not completely uninterested nor ignorant. =A0So, w=
hat do
> >> you think {lo broda} means?
>
> >> ------------------------------
> >> *From:* Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com>
> >> *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com
> >> *Sent:* Tue, September 20, 2011 2:58:45 PM
> >> *Subject:* Re: [lojban] Should we have another mailing list for abstru=
se
> >> discussions?
>
> >> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 8:04 AM, John E. Clifford <kali9pu...@yahoo.co=
m>wrote:
>
> >>> Well, as the old saying (I've been saying it for thirty some years) g=
oes,
> >>> "If you want to have a logical language, you have to put up with a li=
ttle
> >>> logic". =A0In the present case, since it concerns {zo'e}, the most co=
mmon
> >>> unwritten word in Lojban, and thus {lo}, the most common written word
> >>> (possibly excluding {I} and { cu}), it would seem to be worthy of gen=
eral
> >>> attention. =A0The demands of the discussion are not great (yes, Monta=
gue's
> >>> course was graduate level, but Partee's was just Senior level and we =
don't
> >>> need the whole pile here). =A0So gird up and learn a little about pos=
sible
> >>> worlds and mappings and intensionality. =A0Jboske would be a nice sit=
e, but,as
> >>> noted, no one goes there and there is no handy connection to it from =
the
> >>> general site.
>
> >>> Sent from my iPad
>
> >> I don't even know what the TITLE means. Oh, I know I could probably lo=
ok
> >> it up and find out, sure. But, here's the thing- I don't care. I am no=
t a
> >> linguist or logician. I have no interest whatsoever IN understanding.
> >> Figuring out how the language works isn't my job. That job belongs to =
the
> >> linguists and logicians. They figure out how a word works, then they t=
ell
> >> us, in layman's terms, once they've figured it out. The whole zo'e thi=
ng
> >> going on is exactly that- something they are figuring out.
>
> >> I've got enough stuff on my "to learn" plate being in college without
> >> putting the learning of an entirely new discipline on there too- espec=
ially
> >> one that I'm not interested in anyway. If I don't /need/ to learn it, =
and I
> >> don't /want/ to learn it, I'm not going to learn it. Simple as that. G=
et
> >> back to me when you figure out what zo'e means.
>
> >>> On Sep 20, 2011, at 5:40, rdent...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>> On , Arnt Richard Johansen <a...@nvg.org> wrote:
> >>> > There is jbo...@yahoogroups.com, but that one hasn't been posted to
> >>> since 2007.
>
> >>> Great! Let's ask those that want to conduct such in-depth discussions=
 to
> >>> move there!
>
> >>> remod
>
> >>> --
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gr=
oups
> >>> "lojban" group.
> >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> >>> For more options, visit this group at
> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>
> >>> =A0--
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gr=
oups
> >>> "lojban" group.
> >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> >>> For more options, visit this group at
> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>
> >> --
> >> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> >> =A0--
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro=
ups
> >> "lojban" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro=
ups
> >> "lojban" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>
> > --
> > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> > =A0--
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou=
ps
> > "lojban" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou=
ps
> > "lojban" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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