Received: from mail-vx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]:58604)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRCLmIj0BBoEEJhslQ@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1R8bkC-0005Wg-Da; Tue, 27 Sep 2011 10:47:09 -0700
Received: by vcbfl17 with SMTP id fl17sf3848027vcb.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Tue, 27 Sep 2011 10:46:53 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-id:x-yahoo-newman-property
         :x-ymail-osg:x-yahoo-smtp:references:in-reply-to
         :x-apple-yahoo-original-message-folder:mime-version:message-id
         :x-mailer:from:x-apple-yahoo-replied-msgid:subject:date:to
         :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post
         :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe
         :content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=F7kvDxba637h+5FEqWRGDtmDF6SyMLY4o1JzCl+ETOM=;
        b=zSqnE0zxDQnH931l4J2dRX/NvmXIHSDD7C8K1Wsr+2/7VjBdPFEJtlhwYfgLyOrsZM
         cp4Yg6P7oRD7Ur/RH4Rr3MHEh3j2nqbLRDcRwH5OUsJOnHpIOXF11KaI67jLcHHSRdWH
         HaCxAHfH1kvi/HDJ1aTbSz4okMu+PCDDcS7B8=
Received: by 10.220.151.204 with SMTP id d12mr1812255vcw.31.1317145611410;
        Tue, 27 Sep 2011 10:46:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.52.181.129 with SMTP id dw1ls107616vdc.0.gmail; Tue, 27 Sep
 2011 10:46:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.52.30.47 with SMTP id p15mr5474037vdh.29.1317145610470;
        Tue, 27 Sep 2011 10:46:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.52.30.47 with SMTP id p15mr5474036vdh.29.1317145610461;
        Tue, 27 Sep 2011 10:46:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from nm30.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com (nm30.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com. [98.139.52.227])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id bh5si11757862vdc.3.2011.09.27.10.46.50;
        Tue, 27 Sep 2011 10:46:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.139.52.227 as permitted sender) client-ip=98.139.52.227;
Received: from [98.139.52.193] by nm30.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Sep 2011 17:46:50 -0000
Received: from [98.139.52.178] by tm6.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Sep 2011 17:46:50 -0000
Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1061.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Sep 2011 17:46:50 -0000
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 276674.24326.bm@omp1061.mail.ac4.yahoo.com
Received: (qmail 25001 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2011 17:46:50 -0000
X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3
X-YMail-OSG: e6OzV5kVM1lrKMbzRQuQl6fWf4ZY2NgMbB3oE1k0ghuelES
 QHDOjCiwyMRMUtBYrsfjHRvMNfnrWZXFgYbatR8Dd_L5S8akRpuKLGX6Il7z
 crkkDgrdHN3BVHePM4oGC0URlUvrWkM2Wvf1X_Vm5SF7APBtPb4_gHjrn07t
 nhxxYYwJgujJyPV5tZXYedj3vX1B10cBfzNySfRXWK5cw8s986sGuyhs8QWa
 FzMrixbGQpjbYA6RyN4JF0ldJ7k.XpxjUBkSOtpN5Tl94TPeQFsqBtRzM.Zl
 t_Bz4Mv7JqEBDTPOazYsgQ3Y2JJ3jlQM4bQP5udWu9e0fvHxxEQpdPzCtS4m
 LxFkRbBLrQ_oVO8OiSsis1aNJVpywgZIbipxXh7dbY4Q18kpRFUFFoYicTMq
 OJ5xrARWgLsN2pUhqKzMfvmloMAFM1UrBGAySNjTSeZiwWhzrbr0NvC.2jPJ
 RUw0rzNeA06T4OC4q62qED79FB0flt8yCtwD1iULIcost7Wy1zv__yLt2JnU
 -
X-Yahoo-SMTP: xvGyF4GswBCIFKGaxf5wSjlg3RF108g-
Received: from [192.168.1.68] (kali9putra@99.92.108.41 with xymcookie)
        by smtp101-mob.biz.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2011 10:46:47 -0700 PDT
References: <3b5e0b1d-a58d-44ac-ae3f-a46ccdb2a8ed@t11g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> <CAGO2uOMF=XZ02uEALEBM8G_4ALk5nBSZB5nwK0E-7wZz9ZkLhQ@mail.gmail.com> <20110927093105.GD28218@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <CACf3dPnXgPkNJk73+4_2Dyh_mN0wi604ae08r+tC_WOM=ZjX6g@mail.gmail.com> <CAGO2uON=nRvTvGA3=+eHMTdn_wHtNFPuJUiod2ujLeQ4fHuLOw@mail.gmail.com> <4E81E9CD.5090608@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <4E81E9CD.5090608@gmail.com>
X-Apple-Yahoo-Original-Message-Folder: AAlojbanery
Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8G4)
Message-Id: <C53CF4C3-B7FB-4988-9768-089611922A06@yahoo.com>
X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8G4)
From: "John E. Clifford" <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
X-Apple-Yahoo-Replied-Msgid: 1_10173581_AHnHjkQAAQBtToHp2gDGADDHXHQ
Subject: Re: [lojban] English
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 13:58:45 -0400
To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" <lojban@googlegroups.com>
X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.139.52.227
 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Spam_score: 0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

Remember that Lojban claims to be ambiguity- free in only two respects: eve=
ry Lojban utterance can be uniquely decomposed into words, whose syntactic =
type is fixed, and every sentence that passes the official grammar has only=
 one parse tree.   This not a trivial claim, since most languages, includin=
g much simpler conlangs, do not have either of these properties. But when w=
e move on to semantics, this is not enough to guarantee unique readings.  L=
ojban is clear on transformation involving conjunction relations between tw=
o or more sentences with common elements, but not so much on deep structure=
 below the sentence level.  In particular, tanru are opaque, ambiguous,  th=
ough other, less common, structure are as well.
Sent from my iPad

On Sep 27, 2011, at 11:20, And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com> wrote:

> Escape Landsome, On 27/09/2011 15:41:
>>> since the range of
>>> occasions when we actually want time-flies-like-an-arrow or
>>> someone-loves-everyone ambiguity (e.g. poetry) is much smaller than the
>>> range of occasions when we want to avoid it.
>>=20
>> Are you sure ?
>=20
> I'm sure for myself and for most people; and even in poetry I more often =
find myself, when writing it, as opposed to reading it, striving to foresta=
ll ambiguity or misreading of ambiguous phrases than to capitalize on it. O=
f course, someone might perfectly legitimately prefer a language that is am=
biguous, but given that we have 6000 ambiguous languages and 1 unambiguous =
one (Lojban), it seems a bit unreasonable to criticize Lojban for providing=
 what the other 6000 don't.
>=20
> --And.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups=
 "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr=
oups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb=
an?hl=3Den.
>=20

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.