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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Should we have another mailing list for abstruse discussions?
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 13:41:21 -0400
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 Content preview:  Well, with this use and CLL, a good case can be made for three
    distinct meanings -- not to mention as short- scope particular quantifier.
    Sent from my iPad On Sep 27, 2011, at 12:26, Jed <jednewaccount@yahoo.com>
    wrote: [...] 
 
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Well, with this use and CLL, a good case can be made for three distinct meanings -- not to mention as short- scope particular quantifier.

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 27, 2011, at 12:26, Jed <jednewaccount@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Shoot, I must not have been paying attention. I didn't realize anyone
> thought zo'e meant anything different.
> 
> On Sep 20, 4:48 pm, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:40 PM, John E Clifford <kali9pu...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>> 
>>> Good!  Then you realize the importance of having the meaning of all
>>> expressions of Lojban as clearly laid out in formal terms as possible, so
>>> that computers (as of now at least, can understand).  So you must recognize
>>> that the problems with {zo'e} are important, since that word preserves the
>>> place structure intact, rather than flittering away into mush when it is not
>>> used completely.
>> 
>> Seeing as I intentionally haven't paid attention, at all, to that thread, I
>> don't even know what "problems" {zo'e} has. So, I'm going to say, no, I
>> don't re3cognixe that they are important. What I do recognize is that /I/,
>> personally, don't care. I'm not a linguist. To me {zo'e} means, basically,
>> "context-determined". That is, whatever it is within the context of the
>> jufra, or possibly the discussion, that would sensibly fit in the place
>> {zo'e} is being used (explicitly or implicitly), is what what {zo'e} means
>> in that place. I would not be surprised if a computer of today could not
>> understand that, but I do not think it is because {zo'e} is ill-defined, I
>> think it is because computers don't understand context, or even the concept
>> thereof.
>> 
>>> I agree about Klingon, but I think tp is cute (subjective, as you say).
>>> And, of course, I like your definition of {lo broda}.
>> 
>> It's not /my/ definition. It's /the/ definition.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com>
>>> *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com
>>> *Sent:* Tue, September 20, 2011 4:30:17 PM
>> 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [lojban] Should we have another mailing list for abstruse
>>> discussions?
>> 
>>> My attraction to Lojban is the unambiguous-ness of it's pronunciation, that
>>> it is possible to be as specific or as clear as you want, and the place
>>> structure system it has due to being based on predicate logic. Oh yes, and
>>> that stated goal of being able to talk to computers and have them /actually
>>> understand you/.
>> 
>>> I don't take up Klingon because I'm not a Trekkie. While I do like the Star
>>> Trek franchise, I'm not enough of a fan to devote time to learn a language
>>> spoken by a fictitious race of war-mongers. /IF/ I were going to learn the
>>> language of a star Trek species, I'd learn Vulcan. The only Klingon I ever
>>> liked was Torres on Voyager, and she was milato.
>> 
>>> I don't take up toki pona because it's ugly. I realize that's a subjective
>>> argument, but meh. I'm allowed.
>> 
>>> {lo broda} means "one or more things which actually fit into the x1 slot of
>>> the predicate {broda}".
>> 
>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:09 PM, John E Clifford <kali9pu...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>> 
>>>> Well, in keeping with the saying, what is the attraction of Lojban to
>>>> you?  Why not take up Klingon, which has a definite culture and definitive
>>>> answers to your haja questions (haja form the pluperfect subjunctive?, a
>>>> question liable to get more muddy than xorlo in Lojban)?  Or toki pona, that
>>>> takes about a day to learn enough to carry on conversations on a range of
>>>> things and contribute to the list? And, while most of your contributions
>>>> have been about haja questions or general learning aids (the best app for
>>>> your smartphone, say), you have taken part in earlier rounds of the eternal
>>>> xorlo issue so, are not completely uninterested nor ignorant.  So, what do
>>>> you think {lo broda} means?
>> 
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com>
>>>> *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com
>>>> *Sent:* Tue, September 20, 2011 2:58:45 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [lojban] Should we have another mailing list for abstruse
>>>> discussions?
>> 
>>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 8:04 AM, John E. Clifford <kali9pu...@yahoo.com>wrote:
>> 
>>>>> Well, as the old saying (I've been saying it for thirty some years) goes,
>>>>> "If you want to have a logical language, you have to put up with a little
>>>>> logic".  In the present case, since it concerns {zo'e}, the most common
>>>>> unwritten word in Lojban, and thus {lo}, the most common written word
>>>>> (possibly excluding {I} and { cu}), it would seem to be worthy of general
>>>>> attention.  The demands of the discussion are not great (yes, Montague's
>>>>> course was graduate level, but Partee's was just Senior level and we don't
>>>>> need the whole pile here).  So gird up and learn a little about possible
>>>>> worlds and mappings and intensionality.  Jboske would be a nice site, but,as
>>>>> noted, no one goes there and there is no handy connection to it from the
>>>>> general site.
>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> I don't even know what the TITLE means. Oh, I know I could probably look
>>>> it up and find out, sure. But, here's the thing- I don't care. I am not a
>>>> linguist or logician. I have no interest whatsoever IN understanding.
>>>> Figuring out how the language works isn't my job. That job belongs to the
>>>> linguists and logicians. They figure out how a word works, then they tell
>>>> us, in layman's terms, once they've figured it out. The whole zo'e thing
>>>> going on is exactly that- something they are figuring out.
>> 
>>>> I've got enough stuff on my "to learn" plate being in college without
>>>> putting the learning of an entirely new discipline on there too- especially
>>>> one that I'm not interested in anyway. If I don't /need/ to learn it, and I
>>>> don't /want/ to learn it, I'm not going to learn it. Simple as that. Get
>>>> back to me when you figure out what zo'e means.
>> 
>>>>> On Sep 20, 2011, at 5:40, rdent...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>>>>> On , Arnt Richard Johansen <a...@nvg.org> wrote:
>>>>>> There is jbo...@yahoogroups.com, but that one hasn't been posted to
>>>>> since 2007.
>> 
>>>>> Great! Let's ask those that want to conduct such in-depth discussions to
>>>>> move there!
>> 
>>>>> remod
>> 
>>>>> --
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>> 
>>>>>  --
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>> 
>>>> --
>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>> 
>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>> 
>>>>  --
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>>>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>>> For more options, visit this group at
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>> 
>>>> --
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>>>> For more options, visit this group at
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>> 
>>> --
>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>> 
>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>> 
>>>  --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>> 
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>> 
>> --
>> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>> 
>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )- Hide quoted text -
>> 
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
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