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Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 17:21:20 -0400
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Which is why I added "or would have I intended if he had thought of it". So you are saying he might have intended a variable.  I personally think it is {zi'o}, but that probably has problems too--though I can't think of one.

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 6, 2011, at 15:35, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:

> * Thursday, 2011-10-06 at 11:10 -0700 - John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>:
> 
>> Well, I am not sure just what the all the complications that MB and
>> xorxes have stirred up are, but, so far as I can follow it, the
>> position seems to be that {zo'e} stands for something I have in mind
>> (or would have, if I thought about it).  It is a constant (a different
>> one at each occurrence -- an ongoing problem in Lojban), not
>> a variable and not under any quantifier.  Then {lo broda} is that with
>> the additional information that the something is in some way, broda.
>> So, it can refer to anything from a single broda to all brodas, past,
>> present, future, and possible but not actualized.  This referent can
>> then be said to have a further property in a variety of ways, mainly
>> to be grokked from context, since the ways to specify them are not ywr
>> well-established.  My understanding is that MB disagrees with this
>> specification of {zo'e} and xorxes with the extrapolation to the
>> referent, but juast why is hard to see.
> 
> Because it doesn't seem to explain the behaviour of {zo'e} with respect
> to negation and quantifiers - at least if we accept that an unfilled
> place is implicitly filled with a {zo'e}, and if we don't use kinds.
> 
> To dig out the old example, in
> A: xu do pu klama lo zarci
> B: mi na klama
> , and assuming that there's only one market in question, B probably
> intends to refer to that market by the implicit {zo'e} in {klama}'s x2.
> But B is unlikely to mean only to mean that for some specific route,
> B didn't go to the market by that route. B probably means that B didn't
> go to the market via *any* route, or means of transport.
> 
> Your explanation of {zo'e} seems not to deal with that.
> 
> Martin

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