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<1317917098.8073.YahooMailRC@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1317924653.89892.YahooMailRC@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20111006193514.GC8826@gonzales> <3166A594-07BE-4D24-AA0F-C56D07C223A5@yahoo.com> <20111007003217.GD8826@gonzales> <4E91FF55.6070801@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4E91FF55.6070801@gmail.com> X-Apple-Yahoo-Original-Message-Folder: AAlojbanery Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8G4) Message-Id: <53F868DD-3580-4B13-AAB1-AC2933FD0761@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8G4) From: "John E. Clifford" X-Apple-Yahoo-Replied-Msgid: 1_10362730_AHzHjkQAAI+JTpH/XwCmoBnqf8A Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 18:09:52 -0400 To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.138.91.135 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Yes, it does describe a route after a fashion, the questions why to have it= come from{ klama} rather than something that does not involve purposeful a= ctivity. MB cites some other more plausible cases, but the whole is very n= on-standard, since the usual procedure is just quantifying off. Clearly ha= ving {zi'o} as a value for {zo'e} would just make a bad situation even wors= e, as would {zi'o} as a value for an unfilled space. Sent from my iPad On Oct 9, 2011, at 16:08, And Rosta wrote: > John E. Clifford, On 09/10/2011 00:56: >> About {zi'o}, there are two possible >> ways of reading, say, {zi'o klama}. One as a relation among places, >> paths and modes of transportation that hold of a quartet of such just >> in case some traveler take the path from the second place to the >> first along the path using the transportation mode. The second is >> much the same except that the traveller does not enter in, we just >> have a relation among the quartets with no further indication of why >> they are in that relation. The second view, while formally possible, >> is surely not what is intended; why would we use {klama} if the >> things related were never part of a trip? >=20 > {zi'o klama} surely does mean what your Second View says it means. It mak= e make sense for describing, say, a transport route. >=20 > IMO the best rule would be for empty places to be fillable by zi'o or by = zo'e, but not for zi'o to be a possible value of zo'e. Disambiguation could= be effected by using an overt zi'o or zo'e. Allowing zi'o as a value of zo= 'e would permit undisambiguable ambiguity -- of course a very bad thing. Th= e advantage of letting empty places be fillable by covert zi'o is that it w= ould overcome the problem of superfluous gismu places that usage tends to f= orget about. >=20 > --And. >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. >=20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.