Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]:43601)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhDN8tH0BBoEkrnr1Q@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1RDftu-0001Zb-Es; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:14:06 -0700
Received: by gya6 with SMTP id 6sf14161903gya.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:13:51 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=tSKHRSbE5/vqxET/oQeXOwf/ebdPeARVkCD/Z8puvrs=;
        b=Exw6wTUq5ewV+0DaH2/j0CavYDEjJ1Xh4pifcoJRCsrEAPGTknGFnYo0g0fXOqyCBf
         OgQMg5+UEmfjHPx7YxTxt0z9UkZX2pjWuagwsC7HaX95o5PRNX25DhjFnHmX/FgwfsBs
         /hNhLanKGRSo43u/EW9mY/Kw9voghIqgQQFrQ=
Received: by 10.146.119.1 with SMTP id r1mr1218670yac.0.1318353229501;
        Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:13:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.91.207.1 with SMTP id j1ls23392458agq.0.gmail; Tue, 11 Oct
 2011 10:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.236.78.41 with SMTP id f29mr32606300yhe.2.1318353227554;
        Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.236.78.41 with SMTP id f29mr32606298yhe.2.1318353227540;
        Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-gx0-f174.google.com (mail-gx0-f174.google.com [209.85.161.174])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n75si1257853yhe.3.2011.10.11.10.13.47
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.174 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.174;
Received: by mail-gx0-f174.google.com with SMTP id v2so7136281ggn.5
        for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.42.135.69 with SMTP id o5mr27785333ict.34.1318353227083; Tue,
 11 Oct 2011 10:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.42.4.195 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAKOEKkSQwZXqp=qK8u_Tyh0UQmkKtr+5qW7ODzrvDsKN9q-g+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0bee931d21bbb12d49b2029731cfac07.squirrel@QuestMail.FutureQuest.net>
	<CAKOEKkSQwZXqp=qK8u_Tyh0UQmkKtr+5qW7ODzrvDsKN9q-g+A@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:13:47 -0600
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj2QoyMtg-qAV9RDuYC7dhL618Rt--Ut-=kpXaYwH9jLyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] fagricipni's Translations #1
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.174 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba6e836cc9f10304af0907a7
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Spam_score: 0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

--90e6ba6e836cc9f10304af0907a7
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

You don't need the be'o. It's only required when linking multiple sumti, or
in other words, it's only needed when using bei.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Michael Turniansky
<mturniansky@gmail.com>wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 4:19 AM, fagricipni <lojban707@fagricipni.com>wrote:
>
>> In addition to the memorization that I have decided to
>> implement by repeatedly writing things down and using the
>> quizzing program that have written and made available, I'm
>> trying "little" translations.  I'm taking a lot of my things to
>> translate from books, but I am trying to stay within fair use
>> limits and always post the source for the ones that I am
>> posting.
>>
>> My current attempt is a translation is of:
>>
>> "Man's mind is his basic tool of survival"
>> (Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged)
>>
>> I have decided to use "prenu" as the translation of "Man".
>>
>> My translation is:
>>
>> jicmu pilno lo menli be lo prenu be'o lo za'i renvi
>>
>> I have intentionally left two blanks here; both of which are
>> intended to be clearly intended to be filled with the same
>> "lo prenu" that is a linked sumti of "lo menli": one is the
>> first place of "pilno" the other is the first place of the
>> abstracted "renvi".
>>
>   I would think you would be better off moving the lo prenu out of the be
> level and making it the x1 of the main bridi ("lo prenu cu jicmu pilno lo
> menli lo za'i renvi") since a) who else's mind would he use? and b) you want
> to make as assertion ("Man basically uses a mind for survival"), not just an
> observative ("There's a basic user of a mind of man for survival").  But if
> you want to keep the emphasis of the original, put the mind up front: "lo
> menli be lo prenu cu jicmu tutci lo z'i renvi")
>      --gejyspa
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
>



-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.


--90e6ba6e836cc9f10304af0907a7
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

You don&#39;t need the be&#39;o. It&#39;s only required when linking multip=
le sumti, or in other words, it&#39;s only needed when using bei.<br><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Michael Turnians=
ky <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com">mturnians=
ky@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 4:19 AM=
, fagricipni <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lojban707@fagricipni.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">lojban707@fagricipni.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
</div><div class=3D"im"><blockquote style=3D"border-left:#ccc 1px solid;mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">In addition t=
o the memorization that I have decided to<br>implement by repeatedly writin=
g things down and using the<br>

quizzing program that have written and made available, I&#39;m<br>trying &q=
uot;little&quot; translations. =A0I&#39;m taking a lot of my things to<br>t=
ranslate from books, but I am trying to stay within fair use<br>limits and =
always post the source for the ones that I am<br>

posting.<br><br>My current attempt is a translation is of:<br><br>&quot;Man=
&#39;s mind is his basic tool of survival&quot;<br>(Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugge=
d)<br><br>I have decided to use &quot;prenu&quot; as the translation of &qu=
ot;Man&quot;.<br>

<br>My translation is:<br><br>jicmu pilno lo menli be lo prenu be&#39;o lo =
za&#39;i renvi<br><br>I have intentionally left two blanks here; both of wh=
ich are<br>intended to be clearly intended to be filled with the same<br>

&quot;lo prenu&quot; that is a linked sumti of &quot;lo menli&quot;: one is=
 the<br>first place of &quot;pilno&quot; the other is the first place of th=
e<br>abstracted &quot;renvi&quot;.<br></blockquote>
</div><div>=A0 I would think you would be better off moving the lo prenu ou=
t of the be level and making it the x1 of the main bridi (&quot;lo prenu cu=
 jicmu pilno lo menli lo za&#39;i renvi&quot;) since a) who else&#39;s mind=
 would he use? and b) you want to make as assertion (&quot;Man basically us=
es a mind for survival&quot;), not just an observative (&quot;There&#39;s a=
 basic user of a mind of man for survival&quot;).=A0 But if you want to kee=
p the emphasis of the original, put the mind up front: &quot;lo menli be lo=
 prenu cu jicmu tutci lo z&#39;i renvi&quot;)</div>


<div>=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa</div>
<div>=A0</div></div></div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com" target=3D"_blank">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban%2Bun=
subscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com</a>.<br>

For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/lojba=
n?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l=
uk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. =
:D )<br>
<br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



--90e6ba6e836cc9f10304af0907a7--