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Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 11:39:53 +0100
From: And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable
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Martin Bays, On 13/10/2011 05:33:
> To take a simple example: when the {lo} is read generically, what does
> {lo remna cu prami ri} mean? There are two obvious possibilities
> - "humans love humans" (both generic) and "humans love themselves". The
> first is natural only if we admit kinds.

The debate may have moved on, but back in the day, I'd have understood it t=
o mean "the human loves themself" (or, equivalently, "the human loves the h=
uman", just as "John loves himself" and "John loves John" are equivalent in=
 logic or Lojban), i.e. a reading in which the two obvious possibilities yo=
u mention are in fact nondistinct (because there's only one human). It's tr=
ue that, given that "the human loves themself", one is unsure whether one s=
hould infer that "humans loves humans" or that "humans love themselves", bu=
t that is a metaphysical matter rather than a linguistic one, and hence not=
 something for Lojban or Lojbanology to address.

> (For nastier a example, consider the apparently classic {ro te cange poi
> ponse lo xasli cu darxi ri}... although I'd be happy simply considering
> this to be meaningless)

Do you mean the Lojban is meaningless, because of the inadequacy of the rul=
es for identifying and interpreting the antecedent of {ri} (in which case I=
'm sure you're right)? The proposition intended by donkey sentences is easy=
 to grasp, and pretty commonplace, but hard to formulate in ordinary logic;=
 a logical language should find a way to render the proposition into logic =
and express it succinctly.

--And.

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