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Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 14:38:16 -0400
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One problem with Lojban is that quantifier scope need not correspond to sen=
tences (in some sense of that word -- certainly not bridi). So the floating=
 'da' is likely picked up already by the earlier quantifier  (the anaphora =
helps this view).  On the other hand, there are no unquantified variables i=
n Lojban, so the sentence never would not make sense, just not the sense wa=
nted.

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 15, 2011, at 11:50, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:

> * Saturday, 2011-10-15 at 12:16 -0300 - Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmai=
l.com>:
>=20
>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 7:39 AM, And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Martin Bays, On 13/10/2011 05:33:
>>>=20
>>>> (For nastier a example, consider the apparently classic {ro te cange p=
oi
>>>> ponse lo xasli cu darxi ri}... although I'd be happy simply considerin=
g
>>>> this to be meaningless)
>>> Do you mean the Lojban is meaningless, because of the inadequacy of the
>>> rules for identifying and interpreting the antecedent of {ri} (in which=
 case
>>> I'm sure you're right)?
>> I would say the Lojban is meaningful and (roughly) equivalent to
>> "every farmer who is a donkey-owner is a donkey-beater".
>=20
> i.e. equivalent to {ro te cange poi ponse lo xasli cu darxi lo xasli}?
>=20
> Would you similarly say that {mi cpacu lo plise gi'e ba bo citka ri} is
> equivalent to {mi cpacu lo plise gi'e ba bo citka lo plise}, and that
> any deduction that the same apples are involved is an informal pragmatic
> one?
>=20
> Generally that {zo'e noi broda ku'o ri} =3D=3D {zo'e noi broda ku'o zo'e =
noi
> broda}?
>=20
> Such a rule applied universally would make handling anaphora much easier
> (though admittedly only by pushing more under the rug of pragmatics).
>=20
> It still leaves super-donkey sentences like {su'o da poi te cange cu
> ponse lo xasli noi da darxi .i ri se kecti mi}, where simply copying the
> {lo} with its relative clause to the second sentence would give an
> unbound {da}. Assigning no meaning to such expressions seems reasonable.
>=20
> (Although of course simply adding {je} or {bo} after the {i} would give
> a meaningful expression, which in this case would have something close
> to the intended meaning)
>=20
>> [snip]
>=20
>> =3D ro te cange cu darxi ro xasli poi ri ponse ke'a
>=20
> Nice.
>=20
> Martin

--=20
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