Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]:37609)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCOTEtqyUDhD2ruj0BBoERmRL2g@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1RFDg7-0004C7-Jx; Sat, 15 Oct 2011 16:30:15 -0700
Received: by pzk4 with SMTP id 4sf1497664pzk.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sat, 15 Oct 2011 16:30:01 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references
         :mime-version:content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:x-pgp-key
         :x-pgp-keyid:x-cunselcu'a-valsi:user-agent:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe;
        bh=xMbcPfa4ykiDaIFSjDCnlosfBU0raZS7mjUuc/98kFw=;
        b=V0SZp5b8nVFTyrtjee4yFJPi5E3Dz8MSvfWJPiCyrokq4SVfY23rM04v8lIUGUOXAg
         Z3mcUeakABzF9/Y5rHWMAYHx01bBqT4pchpIsKhSORne9WU2jyr6AgL85FWAGIjgJhkH
         9z9VXK7dagCMtpvh5Gpq1gMC1LPYVug3bVsbY=
Received: by 10.68.11.33 with SMTP id n1mr2831921pbb.3.1318721398665;
        Sat, 15 Oct 2011 16:29:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.68.42.97 with SMTP id n1ls14019556pbl.2.gmail; Sat, 15 Oct
 2011 16:29:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.68.21.229 with SMTP id y5mr19299446pbe.1.1318721398103;
        Sat, 15 Oct 2011 16:29:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.68.21.229 with SMTP id y5mr19299444pbe.1.1318721398094;
        Sat, 15 Oct 2011 16:29:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from sdf.lonestar.org (mx.sdf.org. [192.94.73.19])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r5si13828676pbe.1.2011.10.15.16.29.58
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Sat, 15 Oct 2011 16:29:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of mbays@sdf.org designates 192.94.73.19 as permitted sender) client-ip=192.94.73.19;
Received: from gonzales.homelinux.org (root@sverige.freeshell.org [192.94.73.4])
	by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.5/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p9FNTvM0005085
	for <lojban@googlegroups.com>; Sat, 15 Oct 2011 23:29:57 GMT
Received: from martin by gonzales.homelinux.org with local (Exim 4.75)
	(envelope-from <mbays@sdf.org>)
	id 1RFDfx-0005zA-7v
	for lojban@googlegroups.com; Sat, 15 Oct 2011 19:29:57 -0400
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 19:29:57 -0400
From: Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable
Message-ID: <20111015232957.GH3779@gonzales>
References: <1318202744.44997.YahooMailRC@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
 <20111013043308.GD3367@gonzales>
 <4E981179.1030805@gmail.com>
 <20111014225934.GC3111@gonzales>
 <4E98D899.7080608@gmail.com>
 <20111015200404.GB3090@gonzales>
 <CAO7tK2d212cYedWPHvVjz2BsDhrfst9GOB+00QSRHGMMaOHQGg@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
	protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="jRdC2OsRnuV8iIl8"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CAO7tK2d212cYedWPHvVjz2BsDhrfst9GOB+00QSRHGMMaOHQGg@mail.gmail.com>
X-PGP-Key: http://mbays.freeshell.org/pubkey.asc
X-PGP-KeyId: B5FB2CD6
X-cunselcu'a-valsi: kenra
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
X-Original-Sender: mbays@sdf.org
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 best guess record for domain of mbays@sdf.org designates 192.94.73.19 as
 permitted sender) smtp.mail=mbays@sdf.org
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /


--jRdC2OsRnuV8iIl8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

* Saturday, 2011-10-15 at 17:32 -0300 - Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.=
com>:

> On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:
> >
> > Well, liking dogs is quite different from liking Fido, and also
> > different from liking almost all dogs, and from there being a high
> > probability that you would (come to) like a randomly chosen dog you were
> > presented with, and from anything else which reduces to talking about
> > individual dogs. I do think that it would be reasonable to use {nelci}
> > for this concept, but that it should be expressed by {nelci lo ka gerku}
> > rather than {nelci lo gerku}.
>=20
> The drawback of that approach is that you cannot combine predications
> that "resolve" differently. You can't say for example "I like lions,
> but they are destroying my garden", not as "mi nelci lo ka cinfo .i
> ku'i ri daspo lo mi purdi" anyway, because presumably you don't mean
> to say that a property is destroying your garden.

Probably I don't, although it arguably it might make some sense to do
so. The crucial thing is just that {lo ka cinfo cu cinfo} is false.

In any case, this drawback seems a rather small one to me.

Martin

--jRdC2OsRnuV8iIl8
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAk6aF3UACgkQULC7OLX7LNZYrwCgjQ8kCf0dFdSMu5kfUi8MAgfa
cHQAnjjd8lLVsSiHLVvjgzlkgpGQdAJr
=pY6p
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--jRdC2OsRnuV8iIl8--