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Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 19:03:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable
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Whence these unbound variables y'all keep talking about.  Every variable wi=
thout=20
an explicit quantifier in Lojban has an implicit {su'o}.  You can't make=20
sentences with unbound variables.



----- Original Message ----
From: Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, October 15, 2011 5:29:49 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural=
=20
variable

On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:

>> >> > > > {su'o da poi te cange cu ponse lo xasli noi da darxi .i ri se
>> >> > > > kecti mi}
>
> Oh, I see. So you don't have the first sentence explicitly having the
> meaning that the farmers hit the donkeys which they own, just that they
> own donkeys and hit donkeys.

Right. That's why I said that with "poi" instead of "noi" it would be
a different matter. Notice that in English you said "hit the donkeys
which they own" rather than "hit donkeys, which they own", so you are
talking as if it was "poi". (In fact I'm never quite sure about what
to do with "poi" when it is not being used to restrict the domain of a
quantifier.)

> Similarly, in {so'i da poi te cange cu darxi lo speni be da},
> {lo speni be da} could have constant referent the kind 'humans'?

"lo speni be da" is "zo'e noi speni da". I don't see how you could get
rid of the unbound variable there. There's no referential "lo speni"
in the non-referential "lo speni be da".

> Given this, I'm now slightly surprised that you're willing to allow {lo}
> to ever give a Skolem function rather than a constant!

If the selbri that "lo" transforms into a sumti contains an unbound
variable, then I don't see how "lo" can create out of it anything
other than a function.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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