Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]:64185) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RFLDW-00073U-Bb; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 00:33:11 -0700 Received: by vws16 with SMTP id 16sf1580092vws.16 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 00:32:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:date:from:reply-to:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=o7H9ETNZvQ0nckLfs1sLltLGbqny4Qsof3niCzpSNxU=; b=qy1gEASyWwdR0m2M0a6BVYUcJeNd9CanczO0fIlCJkr2IUuMFCN8S8zKEMwXxE6rTM m8VV0b8kNAnlwf9X4bLDK2ee8iE+FGvQV5SDf9ALHBYtEmxZu+o0+MlZ2GG4cHpMx1wD LDeDqLaV+Y8xRYzfr1mWxR0uJ8xWxODgkFYZE= Received: by 10.220.7.74 with SMTP id c10mr435062vcc.2.1318750376936; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 00:32:56 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.107.205 with SMTP id c13ls8677326vcp.2.gmail; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 00:32:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.7.74 with SMTP id c10mr435061vcc.2.1318750375967; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 00:32:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 00:32:54 -0700 (PDT) From: najrut Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-ID: <8451694.1555.1318750375151.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbzc27> In-Reply-To: References: <21901165.712.1318343884555.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqmn40> <20111011204150.GJ30294@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <25008727.890.1318431452883.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbds1> <28292530.575.1318605393862.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbza28> <20111015065525.GC16603@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <19551811.3018.1318666724641.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbat14> <6841919.647.1318669686432.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbmh5> <20111015160357.GO29295@sunflowerriver.org> <30920969.1288.1318696814482.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbak12> <20111015171342.GQ29295@sunflowerriver.org> Subject: Re: [lojban] Mass import into jbovlaste ? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: ruler11post@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ruler11post@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=ruler11post@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1554_25668934.1318750375149" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_1554_25668934.1318750375149 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks all of you for the explanation. Now I think that it's even better to have those lists in separate dictionaries. No more questions about this import. On Saturday, October 15, 2011 11:00:08 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote: > > While I disagree with najrut, I have to say that I really don't think it > matters. I think I know Robin well enough to know it's not going to happen. > > Robin hasn't even promised to upload the words. All he's said is basically, > when he has the time, he might do it. > > Doing anything beyond merely uploading them, any kind of special handling, > would require even more time and effort. > > Messing with jbovlaste in any way is very low on Robin's priority list, > especially considering his desire for jbovlaste 2.0 to be created to replace > it. > > Conclusion: Robin might, /might/, at some time in the future upload all the > ISO words to jbovlaste. But nothing more. But more likely, najrut will have > to put them on there himself if he wants them there this year. > > > > > As to the words themselves, my reason for not wanting them is because when > it comes to all or nothing situations, I prefer nothing. The conversation > that spawned those two huge lists was about the cultural gismu, and the fact > that some cultures had a gismu, whereas others did not, and that this was an > example of Lojban /not/ being culturally neutral. It was decided that the > only way to be culturally neutral was either for all cultures to have there > own words, which resulted in a huge list of words based on ISO codes of > counrties and languages, or for none to have their own word, which resulted > in the creation of this list: > > banra'a > klura'a > cemra'a > jdara'a > selgu'era'a > tutra'a > > For example, {lu lo glibau to mintu la'oi English toi banra'a la'oi U.K. > li'u mintu lu lo glibau cu brito lo bangu li'u .e zoi gy. English is the > language of the U.K. .gy}. > > Personally, I would much rather remember 6 words that can be used for /any/ > cultural reference, than a huge slew of words that can each only be used for > one. > Me too > > On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 11:13 AM, .alyn.post. < > alyn...@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote: > >> On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 09:40:14AM -0700, najrut wrote: >> > Also if you vote up one word from that list all the others should be >> voted >> > up automatically. They are all equal. None of them is better than any >> > other. >> > >> >> I need to request again that you preserve the threading of e-mail >> messages when you reply to them. It is not clear at all to me >> which message you reply to, when I read only your reply. I cannot >> tell what this e-mail is in reply to. >> >> Will you include the message you are replying to in your reply? I >> will not be able to continue a conversation with you if I am >> confused by the ordering of your messages. >> >> -Alan >> -- >> .i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+un...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> >> > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/LVccr6t9z2sJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. ------=_Part_1554_25668934.1318750375149 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks all of you for the explanation. Now I think that it's even better to= have those lists in separate dictionaries. No more questions about this im= port.

On Saturday, October 15, 2011 11:00:08 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote:=
While I disagree with najrut, = I have to say that I really don't think it matters. I think I know Robin we= ll enough to know it's not going to happen.

Robin hasn't even promis= ed to upload the words. All he's said is basically, when he has the time, h= e might do it.

Doing anything beyond merely uploading them, any kind of special handli= ng, would require even more time and effort.

Messing with jbovlaste = in any way is very low on Robin's priority list, especially considering his= desire for jbovlaste 2.0 to be created to replace it.

Conclusion: Robin might, /might/, at some time in the future upload all= the ISO words to jbovlaste. But nothing more. But more likely, najrut will= have to put them on there himself if he wants them there this year.




As to the words themselves, my reason for not wanting them = is because when it comes to all or nothing situations, I prefer nothing. Th= e conversation that spawned those two huge lists was about the cultural gis= mu, and the fact that some cultures had a gismu, whereas others did not, an= d that this was an example of Lojban /not/ being culturally neutral. It was= decided that the only way to be culturally neutral was either for all cult= ures to have there own words, which resulted in a huge list of words based = on ISO codes of counrties and languages, or for none to have their own word= , which resulted in the creation of this list:

banra'a
klura'a
cemra'a
jd= ara'a
selgu'era'a
tutra'a

For example, {lu lo glibau to mintu= la'oi English toi banra'a la'oi U.K. li'u mintu lu lo glibau cu brito lo b= angu li'u .e zoi gy. English is the language of the U.K. .gy}.

Personally, I would much rather remember 6 words that can be used for /= any/ cultural reference, than a huge slew of words that can each only be us= ed for one.

Me too
 

On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 11:13 AM, .alyn.post= . <alyn...@lodockikumazvati.org> wrot= e:
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 09:40:14AM -0700, najrut wrote:
>    Also if you vote up one word from that list all the other= s should be voted
>    up automatically. They are all equal. None of them is bet= ter than any
>    other.
>

I need to request again that you preserve the threading of e-mail
messages when you reply to them.  It is not clear at all to me
which message you reply to, when I read only your reply.  I cannot
tell what this e-mail is in reply to.

Will you include the message you are replying to in your reply?  I
will not be able to continue a conversation with you if I am
confused by the ordering of your messages.

-Alan
--
.i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@g= ooglegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.= com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/= lojban?hl=3Den.




--
mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/LV= ccr6t9z2sJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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