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From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 20:01:24 -0400
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I still don't see the problem.  "roses are red" and "red things are roses"
both imply that "SOME Xs are Y" since after all, there are yellow roses and
red fire trucks.

On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 7:52 PM, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:

> * Sunday, 2011-10-16 at 18:41 -0400 - Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>:
>
> > On Oct 16, 2011 6:23 PM, "Martin Bays" <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:
> > > * Saturday, 2011-10-15 at 19:22 -0400 - Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org>:
> > > > So am I taking "{lo} -> {zo'e noi}" too literally?
> > >
> > > Actually, what do you make of this argument for not taking it too
> > > literally:
> > >
> > > {lo rozgu cu xunre}
> > >    == {zo'e noi rozgu cu xunre}
> > >    == {zo'e rozgu gi'e xunre}
> > >    == {zo'e xunre gi'e rozgu}
> > >    == {zo'e noi xunre cu rozgu}
> > >    == {lo xunre cu rozgu}
> >
> > What's wrong with that?  The rose is a red thing.  The red thing is a
> rose.
> > I don't see what the problem is
>
> Those two sentences aren't generally considered equivalent in english.
>
> Moreover, xorxes would give "roses are red" and "red things are roses"
> as possible translations. Those are even more clearly non-equivalent.
>
> Martin
>

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I still don&#39;t see the problem. =A0&quot;roses are red&quot; and &quot;r=
ed things are roses&quot; both imply that &quot;SOME Xs are Y&quot; since a=
fter all, there are yellow roses and red fire trucks.<br><br><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote">

On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 7:52 PM, Martin Bays <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:mbays@sdf.org">mbays@sdf.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex;">

* Sunday, 2011-10-16 at 18:41 -0400 - Luke Bergen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:luk=
eabergen@gmail.com">lukeabergen@gmail.com</a>&gt;:<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
&gt; On Oct 16, 2011 6:23 PM, &quot;Martin Bays&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:mbays@sdf.org">mbays@sdf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; * Saturday, 2011-10-15 at 19:22 -0400 - Martin Bays &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:mbays@sdf.org">mbays@sdf.org</a>&gt;:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; So am I taking &quot;{lo} -&gt; {zo&#39;e noi}&quot; too lit=
erally?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Actually, what do you make of this argument for not taking it too=
<br>
&gt; &gt; literally:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; {lo rozgu cu xunre}<br>
&gt; &gt; =A0 =A0=3D=3D {zo&#39;e noi rozgu cu xunre}<br>
&gt; &gt; =A0 =A0=3D=3D {zo&#39;e rozgu gi&#39;e xunre}<br>
&gt; &gt; =A0 =A0=3D=3D {zo&#39;e xunre gi&#39;e rozgu}<br>
&gt; &gt; =A0 =A0=3D=3D {zo&#39;e noi xunre cu rozgu}<br>
&gt; &gt; =A0 =A0=3D=3D {lo xunre cu rozgu}<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; What&#39;s wrong with that? =A0The rose is a red thing. =A0The red thi=
ng is a rose.<br>
&gt; I don&#39;t see what the problem is<br>
<br>
</div>Those two sentences aren&#39;t generally considered equivalent in eng=
lish.<br>
<br>
Moreover, xorxes would give &quot;roses are red&quot; and &quot;red things =
are roses&quot;<br>
as possible translations. Those are even more clearly non-equivalent.<br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Martin<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br>

<p></p>

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