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[66.94.237.223]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id k42si1874067ybk.2.2011.10.16.19.28.39; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 19:28:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.223 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.94.237.223; Received: from [66.94.237.195] by nm22.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2011 02:28:39 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.102] by tm6.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2011 02:28:39 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1007.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2011 02:28:39 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 351662.49447.bm@omp1007.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 23032 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Oct 2011 02:28:39 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 2XVaD3wVM1kjawpXPpwzH_TZTAzamkautxyVV5W3t3VGhYG HoksEcWK4sCDr.cdcHz4ZKYGVBUxhQtElysUXBnI4DxqRLBSKL3AlDhp19ma 9Gtu.us7J88CCuZIfmXGYq29QXmtM4uJVbn_Y4KopFmfx1htSpAR7spK4Nq8 Do7Uld5pptS_1_q93i8pFC2sC1RZsAFQYo8bkQq10N.lNY1f.8gu9wUKyLw8 ec3vo_AEqHmCWxTwCj.UaynmXBfs9jW.sONS4vYjYeKTLrWY0j7iEMHuEKaj w1LIRMAzXoOrkDTApjnWCeBTm8cHVWEJ57RyOYUvbHTgLhjE7SuGLLEtV3P8 KGyyACcIkMn1pJgHFoxaa_eRZZ14GBxUceOsM3x5HnKjSm6nasGQG3kha4xp tdhM.cvDSpCN_NW4FrCkntp6u5H.cEtsHu7RqM4u7mwUPWQ-- Received: from [99.92.108.41] by web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 19:28:38 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/574 YahooMailWebService/0.8.114.317681 References: <20111015185726.GC3779@gonzales> <20111015203444.GD3779@gonzales> <20111015221511.GF3779@gonzales> <20111015232240.GG3779@gonzales> <20111016222320.GD21114@gonzales> <20111016235259.GE21114@gonzales> Message-ID: <1318818518.88996.YahooMailRC@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 19:28:38 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: <20111016235259.GE21114@gonzales> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.223 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / But that involves different modalities, which may put different constraints on {zo'e} among other things (something on the "kind" end of the range, say). ----- Original Message ---- From: Martin Bays To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, October 16, 2011 6:52:59 PM Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable * Sunday, 2011-10-16 at 18:41 -0400 - Luke Bergen : > On Oct 16, 2011 6:23 PM, "Martin Bays" wrote: > > * Saturday, 2011-10-15 at 19:22 -0400 - Martin Bays : > > > So am I taking "{lo} -> {zo'e noi}" too literally? > > > > Actually, what do you make of this argument for not taking it too > > literally: > > > > {lo rozgu cu xunre} > > == {zo'e noi rozgu cu xunre} > > == {zo'e rozgu gi'e xunre} > > == {zo'e xunre gi'e rozgu} > > == {zo'e noi xunre cu rozgu} > > == {lo xunre cu rozgu} > > What's wrong with that? The rose is a red thing. The red thing is a rose. > I don't see what the problem is Those two sentences aren't generally considered equivalent in english. Moreover, xorxes would give "roses are red" and "red things are roses" as possible translations. Those are even more clearly non-equivalent. Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.