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Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable
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? because any number attached to {djacu} would be wrong; there would be bot=
h more and fewer quantities of water involved(aside from the case of deioni=
zed molecules, say)? I don't think that is in keeping with Lojban thinking,=
 which would take the number to be the number of separate puddles or whatev=
er.  Internal quantifier in descriptions would be more problematic, since y=
ou might usually be able to get more bits out than the quantifier says were=
 in.  I am inclined to think that not having mass nouns was a mistake, exce=
pt that the logic of them was so poorly worked out back then (and has bad g=
aps even now).  This does not seem to me to be a reason to shift over -- to=
 get back to something like the stated topic -- to like massy things like k=
inds or whatever.

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 21, 2011, at 14:09, And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com> wrote:

> John E. Clifford, On 21/10/2011 19:00:
>> Sorry, I seem to have missed the point.  I took the failure of {su'o dja=
cu} to be because  "at least one" did not get to the minimum possibility, h=
ence the need to go to "more than zero".  But that was me getting mixed up =
in the surrounding talk about{pi} and {lo}.
>=20
> No, I did say that as an afterthought, and I was wrong. {su'o djacu} does=
 work. What doesn't work is any specific cardinal other than ci'i. So {pa d=
jacu} and {re djacu} fail, by the Goatleg rule, which says that bare PA mea=
ns "exactly PA, no more and no less".
>=20
> --And.
>=20
>>=20
>> Sent from my iPad
>>=20
>> On Oct 21, 2011, at 12:53, And Rosta<and.rosta@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>=20
>>> John E Clifford, On 21/10/2011 16:35:
>>>> I don't see why; {djacu} is as quantized as every other Lojban predica=
te.
>>>=20
>>> You don't agree that half an amount of water is also an amount of water=
?
>>>=20
>>> --And.
>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>> From: And Rosta<and.rosta@gmail.com>
>>>> To: lojban@googlegroups.com
>>>> Sent: Fri, October 21, 2011 6:52:09 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified p=
lural
>>>> variable
>>>>=20
>>>> Martin Bays, On 21/10/2011 05:12:
>>>>> * Thursday, 2011-10-20 at 23:25 -0400 - Pierre Abbat<phma@phma.optus.=
nu>:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Thursday 20 October 2011 22:06:58 And Rosta wrote:
>>>>>>> When I was last up-to-date with developments, nothing was official,=
 but I
>>>>>>> think I can recall the rudiments of our best efforts at that time t=
o
>>>>>>> construct a consistent and rational gadri system. As far as I now r=
ecall,
>>>>>>> "half an apple" would be "lo pi mu plise", while "pi mu lo plise" w=
ould be
>>>>>>> the "one in every two apples" one.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> If "pimu lo plise" means "one in every two apples", then "pa lo plis=
e" should
>>>>>> mean "every apple". I think "lo pimu plise" is "a half apple"
>>>>>=20
>>>>> But {lo PA broda cu broda} is meant to be a tautology. Half-apples
>>>>> aren't apples.
>>>>=20
>>>> So {lo pi mu plise cu plise} fails that test, but {lo pi mu djacu cu d=
jacu}
>>>> passes it.
>>>>=20
>>>> Following a line of thought that that observation initiates, I note th=
at by the
>>>> Goatleg rule, {su'o plise} is okay but {su'o djacu} is not and would i=
nstead
>>>> have to be {za'u djacu} or {ci'i djacu}.
>>>>=20
>>>> --And.
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou=
ps "lojban" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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>>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lo=
jban?hl=3Den.
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20
> --=20
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups=
 "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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>=20

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