Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]:38000) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RHzc9-0003w4-RC; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 08:05:34 -0700 Received: by wyg24 with SMTP id 24sf10599269wyg.16 for ; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 08:05:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=tr57nvnqiWJMvbafghBdOtwz74Sj0jmPgjtRsdqIcZs=; b=rkJ27e2n6bsHpB19jy+6o0CewmCyeJjQfFB/eRcqq1I3AVAYa69K31zMfIESUGTL+9 HRiXO+TkZuK3AQpEUOdxgiykt6ECRiDCnXxO3DyCZuxTpHfeXkKH9Dpi7PRSGF6UPwLT xQFJ0JvL6V7V5KavuQc+yh5mSLQRlUmZ6sXqo= Received: by 10.216.221.13 with SMTP id q13mr240815wep.2.1319382319800; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 08:05:19 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.53.196 with SMTP id g44ls1582549eec.0.gmail; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 08:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.15.86 with SMTP id e62mr1514292eee.13.1319382318625; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 08:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.15.86 with SMTP id e62mr1514291eee.13.1319382318610; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 08:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ey0-f175.google.com (mail-ey0-f175.google.com [209.85.215.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 4si11084863eew.1.2011.10.23.08.05.18 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 23 Oct 2011 08:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.175; Received: by eyd9 with SMTP id 9so6894787eyd.34 for ; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 08:05:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.62.15 with SMTP id v15mr37607328fah.22.1319382318462; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 08:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.5.165 with HTTP; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 08:05:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4EA419DE.5000505@gmail.com> References: <1318202744.44997.YahooMailRC@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <201110201551.34676.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4EA0D3C2.4050708@gmail.com> <201110202325.23106.phma@phma.optus.nu> <20111021041242.GC28229@gonzales> <4EA15CE9.3000900@gmail.com> <4EA419DE.5000505@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 12:05:18 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:42 AM, And Rosta wrote: > Jorge Llamb=EDas, On 21/10/2011 22:55: >> >> Instead of saying that all Lojban predicates are count, I'd rather say >> that they are all mass, and that quantifiers induce an implicit >> classifier on them, which is often context dependent. > > As usual, I agree with you. So, as John said, adjectival glosses are > generally preferable, out of context, to nominal ones, e.g. "is human" > rather than "is a human". In going from Lojban to English, perhaps. I'm not sure it works the other way though. "is water" seems like a safer gloss for "djacu" than "is aqueous", "is aquatic" or "is watery". A bird can be aquatic, but I don't think that makes it djacu. Similarly lots of things besides humans can be human. I wouldn't translate "to err is human" as "lo nu srera cu remna". mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.