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Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 14:25:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable
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I suppose it has to mean "three quantities of water" because otherwise ther=
e is=20
no way to count, which is what quantifiers do.  Similarly for the internal=
=20
quantifiers.  In both cases, it seems to me that we have now committed ours=
elves=20
in a certain way and there can be no physical hanky-panky whereby the three=
=20
quantities become one and then two and then seven and so on, without some=
=20
explicit operations to that effect.  Such operations are considerably easie=
r=20
with water than with geometric solids a la Banach-Tarski.  Not so easily wi=
th=20
dogs, say; though a certain amount of Frankenstein working might manage to =
make=20
two more or less functional dogs out of one or one out of two (with some sc=
raps=20
left over, perhaps).  Moderately difficult with non-living apparati. =20





----- Original Message ----
From: Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 3:46:02 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural=
=20
variable

* Saturday, 2011-10-22 at 21:21 -0300 - Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.=
com>:

> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 7:45 PM, John E. Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>=
=20
wrote:
> > It's not in the quantifier, but in the predicate, "a quantity of water"=
.
>=20
> I'm not sure what we are disagreeing about. I didn't say it was in the
> quantifier, I said it was induced by quantifiers.
>=20
> In any case, as And pointed out it can't be just any quantity or it
> would always quantify to "ci'i", so it has to be a contextually
> relevant quantity, be it a puddle, a glass, a bottle, a bucket, a
> drop, a measure, a body of water. We can either make it explicit ("ci
> dirgo be lo djacu") or leave it implicit ("ci djacu").

Whether or not {ci djacu cu zvati} can mean that three contextually
measured quantities of water are here (and I don't see why it should),
{lo ci djacu cu zvati} should uncontroversially mean that.

(although without ruling out that there are more quantities, nor that
there is perverseness in the counting of quantities - e.g. with one of
the three quantities being a subquantity of another...)

--=20
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