Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]:37475) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RJPVd-0001IF-Pt; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 05:56:43 -0700 Received: by wyg24 with SMTP id 24sf4761060wyg.16 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 05:56:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=YLZQYZsH5tBB0dZ3T7sbU1X//IQJpGciAo+E41P0EpU=; b=qS3axV1R49ligehHG/06Y1LwQ07dY1KWRlx8QLvxJgYGs7vTgvaKu3niSAxWw6CaR1 58e2XbjeBfop7R2Yog2jVS6LLmFrHG9YFOZRWquvfmbIxC++Hoe5xOEw8pQKIWKG3/oX T/VUW/lErzh9dNWJH6CkDIG1z4HCCTFLPvHZo= Received: by 10.216.134.148 with SMTP id s20mr82223wei.63.1319720187493; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 05:56:27 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.41.145 with SMTP id h17ls158944eeb.1.canary; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 05:56:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.15.86 with SMTP id e62mr2882353eee.13.1319720186268; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 05:56:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.15.86 with SMTP id e62mr2882352eee.13.1319720186237; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 05:56:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ey0-f176.google.com (mail-ey0-f176.google.com [209.85.215.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i11si2970063eea.0.2011.10.27.05.56.26 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 27 Oct 2011 05:56:26 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of so.cool.ogi@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.176; Received: by eyh5 with SMTP id 5so3085538eyh.21 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 05:56:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.11.157 with SMTP id 29mr441955eex.41.1319720185762; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 05:56:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.96.207 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 05:56:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <9080d508-6c45-431d-91f5-cc2cdae68ae1@q13g2000vbd.googlegroups.com> Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 14:56:25 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] skari From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sebastian_Fr=F6jd?= To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: so.cool.ogi@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of so.cool.ogi@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=so.cool.ogi@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364d1e57e0139204b0474ca2 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / --0016364d1e57e0139204b0474ca2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable well, that's a good way to be really precise, although I don't get if 135, 206, 235 refer to RGB, CMYK or Hue/Saturation/Value. Anyway in a world there some cultures don't make distinctions between brown and violet, or where how you're defining colors could be quite different, = I think there's a need to be more precise about the basic definitions of colors. Not that xunre should always mean #FF0000, but I think that should be what it centres around. mu'o mi'e jongausib Den torsdagen den 27:e oktober 2011 skrev Michael Turniansky< mturniansky@gmail.com>: > We already have a way of describing colors that's more precise. There is nothing wrong with a sentence like "lo tsani cu skari la'e li pacimu pi'= e renoxa pi'e recimu" (actually, 1975 Loglan (and perhaps previous and subsequent versions -- I don't know) had kolro defined as "X is a color wit= h hue Y, saturation W, and brilliance H" Not sure when it morphed into the curent lojban skari's type of definition. > > --gejyspa > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 6:05 AM, jongausib wrote: >> >> coi >> .arpis suggests in another thread that the definitions of colors could >> be better: >> {xunre} things like, "one of the three primary colors in the additive >> model, the other two being {pelxu} and {crino}", "the color of an >> iconic rose", "the color of blood", "a color", >> >> I think it would be good to have exact definitions of the colors, for >> unambiguity. >> So something like: >> {xunre} x1 is red [color adjective] in color system x2 [default RGB >> #FF0000/ CMYK (0, 100, 100, 0)]. >> >> Almost every color adjective gismu could easily be defined this way: >> >> crino green (lime) #00FF00 (100, 0, 100, 0) >> pelxu yellow #FFFF00 (0, 0, 100, 0) >> narju orange #FFA500 (0, 35,3, 100, 0) >> xunre red #FF0000 (0, 100, 100, 0) >> nukni magenta #FF00FF (0, 100, 0, 0) >> zirpu purple/violet ? not clear! ? >> blanu blue #0000FF (100, 100, 0, 0) >> cicna cyan #00FFFF (100, 0, 0, 0) >> >> blabi white #FFFFFF (0, 0, 0, 0) >> grusi gray #808080 (0, 0, 0, 50) >> xekri black #000000 (0, 0, 0, 100 =E2=80=A0) >> bunre brown (150, 75, 0) not clear! (0, 50, 100, 41) >> >> Compund colors are a bit more tricky. >> If you say {blari'o} - you probably mean a bluish-type of green (more >> green than blue), and {ri'obla} probably means a greenish-type of blue >> (more blue than green). Since these words are lujvo, and not tanru, >> we'll need exact definitions for them as well. None of them are right >> between blue and green, that would be cicna (cyan). So how should you >> interpret these words? I suggest that blari'o means exactly between >> cicna and crino, and that ri'obla means exactly between cicna and >> blanu. >> >> So for consistency, ri'orcicna (more cyan than green) is 25% of the >> color range between cyan and green, and cicnyri'o (more green than >> cyan) means 75% on the same scale. 50 % on the same scale is {ri'obla} >> as mentioned above. >> >> I think this color model could be useful. The color adjective gismu >> has the same hue value distance between each of them, except that >> zirpu is synonymous to xunbla according to this modell (and therefore >> is superfluous as a gismu) and that there unfortunately is a gismu >> missing between crino and pelxu. >> >> Brown is more of a vague, intuitive definition in the range between >> yellow and red. >> And the current definitions for pink and rose are false, since those >> colors isn't just a mixture between red and white, but also some >> magenta. >> >> I think that most people will use the gismu colors and perhaps some of >> the "first-order"-lujvo colors, and designers and other graphic >> professionals would have usage for more complex lujvo-colors with >> exact definitions. >> Or using tanru with more vague definitions, like sfe'ero xunre >> (falur=C3=B6d) or crino joi pelxu nukni (whatever that means?). >> >> mu'o mi'e jongausib >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --0016364d1e57e0139204b0474ca2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable well,
that's a good way to be really precise, although I don't g= et if 135, 206, 235 refer to RGB, CMYK or Hue/Saturation/Value.

Anyw= ay in a world there some cultures don't make distinctions between brown= and violet, or where how you're defining colors could be quite differe= nt, =C2=A0I think there's a need to be more precise about the basic def= initions of colors. Not that xunre should always mean #FF0000, but I think = that should be what it centres around.

mu'o mi'e jongausib



Den torsdagen den 27:e oktob= er 2011 skrev Michael Turniansky<mturniansky@gmail.com>:
> =C2=A0 We already have a way of de= scribing colors that's more precise.=C2=A0 There is nothing wrong with = a sentence like "lo tsani cu skari la'e li pacimu pi'e renoxa = pi'e recimu"=C2=A0 (actually, 1975 Loglan (and perhaps previous an= d subsequent versions -- I don't know) had kolro defined as "X is = a color with hue Y, saturation W, and brilliance H"=C2=A0 Not sure whe= n it morphed into the curent lojban skari's type of definition.
> =C2=A0
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 --gejyspa
>
> = On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 6:05 AM, jongausib <so.cool.ogi@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> c= oi
>> .arpis suggests in another thread that the definitions of co= lors could
>> be better:
>> {xunre} things like, "one of the three= primary colors in the additive
>> model, the other two being {pel= xu} and {crino}", "the color of an
>> iconic rose",= "the color of blood", "a color",
>>
>> I think it would be good to have exact definitions of = the colors, for
>> unambiguity.
>> So something like:
= >> {xunre} x1 is red [color adjective] in color system x2 [default RG= B
>> #FF0000/ CMYK (0, 100, 100, 0)].
>>
>> Almost ev= ery color adjective gismu could easily be defined this way:
>>
= >> crino =C2=A0 green (lime) =C2=A0 =C2=A0#00FF00 (100, 0, 100, 0)>> pelxu =C2=A0 yellow =C2=A0#FFFF00 (0, 0, 100, 0)
>> narju =C2=A0 orange =C2=A0#FFA500 (0, 35,3, 100, 0)
>> xu= nre =C2=A0 red =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #FF0000 (0, 100, 100, 0)
>> nukni =C2= =A0 magenta #FF00FF (0, 100, 0, 0)
>> zirpu =C2=A0 purple/violet = =C2=A0 ? not clear! =C2=A0 =C2=A0?
>> blanu =C2=A0 blue =C2=A0 =C2= =A0#0000FF (100, 100, 0, 0)
>> cicna =C2=A0 cyan =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #00FFFF =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0(100, 0, 0, 0)
>>
>> blabi =C2=A0 white =C2=A0 #FFFFFF= (0, 0, 0, 0)
>> grusi =C2=A0 gray =C2=A0 =C2=A0#808080 (0, 0, 0, = 50)
>> xekri =C2=A0 black =C2=A0 #000000 (0, 0, 0, 100 =E2=80=A0)<= br> >> bunre =C2=A0 brown =C2=A0 (150, 75, 0) not clear! (0, 50, 100, 41)=
>>
>> Compund colors are a bit more tricky.
>> = If you say {blari'o} - you probably mean a bluish-type of green (more>> green than blue), and {ri'obla} probably means a greenish-ty= pe of blue
>> (more blue than green). Since these words are lujvo, and not tanru= ,
>> we'll need exact definitions for them as well. None of th= em are right
>> between blue and green, that would be =C2=A0cicna = (cyan). So how should you
>> interpret these words? I suggest that blari'o means exactly be= tween
>> cicna and crino, and that ri'obla means exactly betwe= en cicna and
>> blanu.
>>
>> So for consistency,= ri'orcicna (more cyan than green) is 25% of the
>> color range between cyan and green, and cicnyri'o (more green = than
>> cyan) means 75% on the same scale. 50 % on the same scale = is {ri'obla}
>> as mentioned above.
>>
>> I = think this color model could be useful. The color adjective gismu
>> has the same hue value distance between each of them, except that<= br>>> zirpu is synonymous to xunbla according to this modell (and the= refore
>> is superfluous as a gismu) and that there unfortunately = is a gismu
>> missing between crino and pelxu.
>>
>> Brown is = more of a vague, intuitive definition in the range between
>> yell= ow and red.
>> And the current definitions for pink and rose are f= alse, since those
>> colors isn't just a mixture between red and white, but also so= me
>> magenta.
>>
>> I think that most people wi= ll use the gismu colors and perhaps some of
>> the "first-ord= er"-lujvo colors, and designers and other graphic
>> professionals would have usage for more complex lujvo-colors with<= br>>> exact definitions.
>> Or using tanru with more vague d= efinitions, like sfe'ero xunre
>> (falur=C3=B6d) or crino joi = pelxu nukni (whatever that means?).
>>
>> mu'o mi'e jongausib
>>
>> --=
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Go= ogle Groups "lojban" group.
>> To post to this group, se= nd email to lojban@googlegroups.= com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?h= l=3Den.
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you a= re subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
> To pos= t to this group, send email to l= ojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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