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From: Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: lojban and PR
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 09:12:18 -0400
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On Thursday 27 October 2011 05:14:58 Sebastian Fr=F6jd wrote:
> ok,
> just to summarize the discussion here.
> It seems that none of you think that it's a good idea to missionize lojba=
n
> around the world right now (even if I would like to do just that here in
> Sweden when my lojban-skills are better).
> Instead you would like to improve the language itself first. Some of you
> would like to make huge changes (like Muhammed), that would make it a
> totally different language. I don't see why really, since I think lojban
> generally has a great grammatical structure. Others (including me) would
> like to make less significant changes, for example to revise some of the
> word definitions (especielly to be consistent about name of species,
> colours, scientifical and metaphysical concepts etc).

I'd like to see more Lojbanists whose first language isn't Indo-European. T=
he=20
claim comes up frequently when there's a technical discussion that Lojban i=
s=20
Standard Average European. It's obvious from its grammar that it's not:
*All European languages have grammatical number. Lojban doesn't.
*Most European languages have accusative alignment. Basque has ergative=20
alignment. Lojban has an indefinitely long sequences of argument places,=20
which occurs in no natural language as far as I know.
*All European languages have nouns (including common nouns), verbs, and=20
adjectives, of which normally only verbs show tense. Lojban has no adjectiv=
es=20
and uses verbs, which show tense, for common nouns and adjectives as well a=
s=20
verbs.
I think that the appearance of SAE comes from most Lojbanists being native=
=20
speakers of European languages, and if we got more Lojbanists whose native=
=20
language have evidentials, tensed adjectives, and other non-European=20
features, the appearance would disappear.

I would like to see a few changes, such as:
*drop the dimension place from "mitre" and express it some other way which=
=20
would also work with "gucti"
*add x2 to "remna"
*allow BIhI to have only one GAhO (there is a construction that would have =
to=20
be disambiguated).

> I agree with Pierre Abbat that some of the discussions here are
> incomprehensible (hey I don't even speak english as my native language as
> you probably can see).

It's not the language that makes it incomprehensible, it's the references t=
o=20
L-sets, Chierchia, Skolem functions, and other things that one hears about=
=20
only in certain university courses, which I haven't taken.

Pierre
--=20
sei do'anai mi'a djuno puze'e noroi nalselganse srera

--=20
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