On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Michael Turniansky <= mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:37 = AM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:=

I agree with gejyspa's disagreeme= nt.

{ni'o ta'o}, in gejyspa's example, which color schem= e is used is left ambiguous, to be specified with {mu'a} {ma'i la&#= 39;oi .RGB.} (is {ma'i} the right modal?)

=C2=A0

=C2=A0You could.=C2=A0 I might be more inclined to use ci'u,= myself.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 --gejyspa
=

=C2=A0

{no'i ta'o nai}

My= complaint wasn't with the vagueness of the definition of "red&quo= t; or of colors in general, but with the sparseness of the directed graph c= onnecting lojban gismu.

A definition of "red" involving color schemes would make this= worse, not better.=20

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Michael Turnian= sky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:

=C2=A0 Well, here I disagree, and for precisely the same reason you gi= ve.=C2=A0 Imprecision is a good thing in color, because it then CAN depend = on the individual's culture, traidition, vision problems, etc.=C2=A0 Al= so, as you know, psychological and physiological color spaces are not the s= ame as each other, nor with what is reporducible on physical devices, etc. = So even defining what the boundaries are can be tricky.) If you NEED precis= ion, you can always do it, but don't lock in the color words with a pre= cison.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 --g= ejyspa

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 8:56 AM, Sebastian Fr=C3= =B6jd <so.cool.ogi@gmail.com> wrote:

well,
that's a good way to be = really precise, although I don't get if 135, 206, 235 refer to RGB, CMY= K or Hue/Saturation/Value.

Anyway in a world there some cultures don't make distinctions betwe= en brown and violet, or where how you're defining colors could be quite= different, =C2=A0I think there's a need to be more precise about the b= asic definitions of colors. Not that xunre should always mean #FF0000, but = I think that should be what it centres around.=20

mu'o mi'e jongausib

Den torsdagen= den 27:e oktober 2011 skrev Michael Turniansky<mturniansky@gmail.com>:=20

> =C2=A0 We already have a way of describing colors that's = more precise.=C2=A0 There is nothing wrong with a sentence like "lo ts= ani cu skari la'e li pacimu pi'e renoxa pi'e recimu"=C2=A0= (actually, 1975 Loglan (and perhaps previous and subsequent versions -- I = don't know) had kolro defined as "X is a color with hue Y, saturat= ion W, and brilliance H"=C2=A0 Not sure when it morphed into the curen= t lojban skari's type of definition.
> =C2=A0
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 --gejyspa
>
> = On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 6:05 AM, jongausib <so.cool.ogi@gmail.com> wrote:
>= >
>> coi
>> .arpis suggests in another thread that the definitions of colors c= ould
>> be better:
>> {xunre} things like, "one of t= he three primary colors in the additive
>> model, the other two be= ing {pelxu} and {crino}", "the color of an
>> iconic rose", "the color of blood", "a color&q= uot;,
>>
>> I think it would be good to have exact defini= tions of the colors, for
>> unambiguity.
>> So something = like:
>> {xunre} x1 is red [color adjective] in color system x2 [default RG= B
>> #FF0000/ CMYK (0, 100, 100, 0)].
>>
>> Almo= st every color adjective gismu could easily be defined this way:
>>= ;
>> crino =C2=A0 green (lime) =C2=A0 =C2=A0#00FF00 (100, 0, 100, 0)>> pelxu =C2=A0 yellow =C2=A0#FFFF00 (0, 0, 100, 0)
>> narj= u =C2=A0 orange =C2=A0#FFA500 (0, 35,3, 100, 0)
>> xunre =C2=A0 re= d =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #FF0000 (0, 100, 100, 0)
>> nukni =C2=A0 magenta #= FF00FF (0, 100, 0, 0)
>> zirpu =C2=A0 purple/violet =C2=A0 ? not clear! =C2=A0 =C2=A0?
&= gt;> blanu =C2=A0 blue =C2=A0 =C2=A0#0000FF (100, 100, 0, 0)
>>= cicna =C2=A0 cyan =C2=A0 =C2=A0 #00FFFF =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(100, 0= , 0, 0)
>>
>> blabi =C2=A0 white =C2=A0 #FFFFFF (0, 0, 0,= 0)
>> grusi =C2=A0 gray =C2=A0 =C2=A0#808080 (0, 0, 0, 50)
>> x= ekri =C2=A0 black =C2=A0 #000000 (0, 0, 0, 100 =E2=80=A0)
>> bunre= =C2=A0 brown =C2=A0 (150, 75, 0) not clear! (0, 50, 100, 41)
>>>> Compund colors are a bit more tricky.
>> If you say {blari'o} - you probably mean a bluish-type of gree= n (more
>> green than blue), and {ri'obla} probably means a gr= eenish-type of blue
>> (more blue than green). Since these words a= re lujvo, and not tanru,
>> we'll need exact definitions for them as well. None of them ar= e right
>> between blue and green, that would be =C2=A0cicna (cyan= ). So how should you
>> interpret these words? I suggest that blar= i'o means exactly between
>> cicna and crino, and that ri'obla means exactly between cicna = and
>> blanu.
>>
>> So for consistency, ri'o= rcicna (more cyan than green) is 25% of the
>> color range between= cyan and green, and cicnyri'o (more green than
>> cyan) means 75% on the same scale. 50 % on the same scale is {ri&#= 39;obla}
>> as mentioned above.
>>
>> I think th= is color model could be useful. The color adjective gismu
>> has t= he same hue value distance between each of them, except that
>> zirpu is synonymous to xunbla according to this modell (and theref= ore
>> is superfluous as a gismu) and that there unfortunately is = a gismu
>> missing between crino and pelxu.
>>
>>= ; Brown is more of a vague, intuitive definition in the range between
>> yellow and red.
>> And the current definitions for pink a= nd rose are false, since those
>> colors isn't just a mixture = between red and white, but also some
>> magenta.
>>
>> I think that most people will use the gismu colors and perhaps som= e of
>> the "first-order"-lujvo colors, and designers an= d other graphic
>> professionals would have usage for more complex= lujvo-colors with
>> exact definitions.
>> Or using tanru with more vague defi= nitions, like sfe'ero xunre
>> (falur=C3=B6d) or crino joi pel= xu nukni (whatever that means?).
>>
>> mu'o mi'e = jongausib
>>
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>
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