On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:25 PM= , John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:

Lojban for "WTF"?

= From: .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gma= il.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, October 27, 2011 8:57:14= PM

Subject: Re: [lojban] SA= E was lojban and PR

{.ua nai sai}

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:4= 7 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wr= ote:

On Thursday 27 October 2011 12:52:52 John E. Clifford wrote:
> SAE is a Whorfian term and has very little to do with the specifics of= word
> class and paradigms. =C2=A0It has more to do with the metaphysical vie= w of the
> language. =C2=A0SAE languages are based on things doing stuff and havi= ng
> properties. =C2=A0Other languages are based on processes going on or m= asses
> dividing or kinds manifesting themselves. =C2=A0The issue in which all= the
> unfortunate weird stuff turns up is more or less an effort to see what= sort
> of language Lojban is and to what extent it can mirror the other kinds= . =C2=A0As
> spoken first (or so) order logic, it is clearly SAE in its most
> Aristotelian form, some say it can be viewed as a mass/ kind language = as
> well.

Could you give examples of sentences showing these other kinds of languages= ?

I found the Wikipedia page. Going down the lists:
1. Definite and indefinite articles =E2=9C=93
2. relative clauses are postnominal but don't have inflected pronouns = =C3=97
3. periphrastic perfect: there are no participles =C3=97
4. predicates to encode experiencers =E2=9C=93
5. passive participle =C3=97
6. anticausative verbs =C3=97 I think, since the transitive is derived
with "-gau, -ri'a, -zu'e"
7. dative external possessors =C3=97
8. negative indefinite =E2=9C=93 though it's two words
9. particle comparative =C3=97 (there is "me'a" but it's = not the usual)
10. equative adverbial =C3=97
11. verb inflected for subject =C3=97
12. differentiation between intensifier and reflexive =E2=9C=93

Further features:
1. verb-initial yes/no =C3=97
2. comparative inflection =C3=97 it's a compound
3. A, B, and C =C3=97
4. comitative and instrumental =C3=97
5. second/two =C3=97
6. no alienable/inalienable distinction =C3=97
7. no clusivity distinction =C3=97
8. no productive reduplication =E2=9C=93
9. topic focus intonation word order =C3=97 (focus can be expressed by word= order,
but topic is expressed by prenex)
10. SVO =E2=9C=93
11. only one gerund =C3=97
12. neither-nor =C3=97
13. phrasal adverbs - not sure what, "still" is a single word
14. replacement of past by perfect =C3=97

The third list: The first six items, which are all phonetic, all =E2=9C=93.= Morphology
is both suffixing and prefixing and is not fusional at all. There is no
morphosyntactic alignment.

Pierre

--
li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du
li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci

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mu'o mi'= e .arpis.

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